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chickenman
02-08-2010, 13:41
Can anyone tell me the minimum calbre for wild boar in the UK. Ive seen on here .270 , .308 30-06 etc. Ive also read 6.5 x 55, which is my reason for asking as I home load 6.5 and have read many articles stating that when used with the correct bullet weight and powders it can have a performance approaching 30-06 levels...probabley the lower end of 30-06? So if thats the case would the upper end of 6.5 be a better choice than a lower end of .270?

Can anyone clear this one up for me please?

Cheers

pete

MJ75
02-08-2010, 13:44
Home Office guidelines state that it's a .270. Therefore it's almost certain that you will not be granted boar on your 6.5 x 55 rifle.

chickenman
02-08-2010, 13:54
Thats what I thought too, just seems the guidelines are a bit odd at times as there is no actual minimum weight of bullet in the calibre as such? If there is please correct me if I am wrong.


Cheers

pete

Claret_Dabbler
02-08-2010, 14:19
There are no hard and fast rules. Most people will say 270win, I would generally agree with this. However, you are absolutely right that a heavy 6.5 is better than a light fast 270, I would much rather have a 6.5 with 156gr bullets than a 270win with 130gr's.

I would personally make 150gr bullet weights the minimum standard, I would not specify a cartridge for the reasons above.

All that said, give me a 30/06 every time. The 30 cals just seem to knock them down better.

enfieldspares
02-08-2010, 14:39
I would much rather have a 6.5 with 156gr bullets than a 270win with 130gr's.Oh dear! I spoke to a man at BASC and said just the same. That this advisory "270 with 150 grains) made us look rather silly to the continentals and that it should be amended to say something like "either a 270 with a minimum of 150 grains or a 6.5mm with a minimum of 10 grammes".

The reaction was to be quite dismissive in an offhand manner that appeared to show little understanding of what works (and has worked for pretty much one hundred years) on the continent.

A response that they "shoot differently" on the continent and that they don't shoot "as we do" from high seats at full moon.

My reply that in that case the boar was surely an EASIER shot here in the UK than on the continent and so 6.5mm with a minimum of 10 grammes would be adequate.

Again this was dismissed.

It is disappointing that when you encounter this you do then start to question why we pay so much to BASC to pay the wages of those that give such advice.

Orion
02-08-2010, 15:11
Home Office guidelines state that it's a .270. Therefore it's almost certain that you will not be granted boar on your 6.5 x 55 rifle.

Unless that is, the OP has 'any other lawful quarry' as a condition against his 6.5x55 - then it's up to him to make the call.

As we've seen from the recently published Wild Boar Best Practice there are some serious gaps in the advice being put forward even by the 'experts' - AAA shot being recommended is a good one! :cuckoo:

http://www.wild-boar.org.uk/guide_list/

Enfieldspares: Given that the guides were produced by the DI, (should that be the WBI now? :suss:), with contributions from BASC and others, it's hardly likely that they are going to go against their own advice - even if it's bollix. Instead of just repeating the guff contained in the HO Guidance and DEFRA reports, why don't they either latch on to what the Germans, French and Skandis have been doing for some time now or just apply some home grown logic to the situation? Sorry, just remembered that where firearms matters are concerned logic goes out of the window! :banghead:

Hales Smut
02-08-2010, 16:10
I don't know a lot about UK laws. Shooting boar driven or nicely broad from a high seat with acceptable light is a big diffrence. The average 20 to 60 kg boar is no harder to kill than a deer from the same weight. A 6.5x55 with a 140grain partition/ 156 grain oryx or Vulcan will easely kill any decent boar in good conditions. A bullet like that is very lethal on everything. The same for a 150 grain partition ( or any other quality bullet) out of a 270. When you still have to buy a rifle for boar and heavy woodland stags get a 30-06 or heavier. If you start from zero, why making it difficult for yourself. A heavy bullet out of a 30-06 or heavier will give you a margin of error when driven shooting. Bullet placement is not always good when shooting driven game.

Les Brooks
02-08-2010, 16:19
Shot mine with a 120gr from my 6.5x55, head shot and it never went anywhere.
Tasted really good too

stalkerboydy
02-08-2010, 16:42
shot my Boar (england) 120 Nosler Partition!!!!!!!!!!!! .25-06 But i have a .300 Win-Mag and use 150,185 or 200 Lapua Mega. The Boar i have shot over the water 6.5x55 140 Partion,.308 and 30-06 150 or 180 i have "NOT" the experiance that many have on here but in my oppion bullet stucture and placement is "VERY" inportant eg 200 Lapua from the .300 never killed the Boar any deader than the .25!!!!!!! i would go min 140 from a 6.5 min????

chickenman
05-08-2010, 22:17
Thanks for all your replies...I looked into it more and it seems to be as said a min .270 with a bullet with a MIN of 2700 ft pounds

Cheers

Pete

Orion
06-08-2010, 09:11
Thanks for all your replies...I looked into it more and it seems to be as said a min .270 with a bullet with a MIN of 2700 ft pounds


Pete, I'll play devil's advocate here but can you tell me where in law does it state that? ;)

Tamus
06-08-2010, 09:31
Pete, I'll play devil's advocate here but can you tell me where in law does it state that? ;)

I'm with you on this Orion, as is Natural England, see quote from them below.

Oh,.... look.... csl.... our old friend AWA2006, even N.E. seems keen to see it applied to wild, free-living animals. I don't think I really need say, I already tried to tell you, but I did.


What legal restrictions are there on how wild boar can be controlled?

There are no specific legal restrictions governing how wild boar can be controlled. Live-catch cage traps are sometimes used to capture wild boar for research or control purposes. However, the general protection against cruelty afforded by the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and the Wild Mammals (Protection) Act 1996 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/ukpga_19960003_en_1) apply. In addition, wild boar are potentially dangerous and difficult to deal with at close quarters so live-trapping is only likely to be appropriate where experienced and trained personnel are involved.
Guidance on legislation, management and control is given in the published Best Practice guidance (http://www.wild-boar.org.uk/).

chickenman
06-08-2010, 15:51
Hi Orion and Ogive.. the place I found it was on shooting times web page as it was in answer to question someone must have asked in the mag, (pretty sure it was shooting times) it never mentioned it being law but said it was the recommendation. All I know is what the say on Defra best parctice is .270 and even that I guess isnt law. Its pretty frustating trying to find out info such as this I am sure you will agree. I called my firearms dept and they didnt know other than a min .270, if what you guys are saying is correct would it be possible to shoot boar with a 6.5 x 55...I did a few rough calculations and reckon using 140 upwards bullet weights I should be able to get the bullet to a few hundered ft/pds under .270 performance??? Would that surfice? or wouldnt it be enough 'clout' fot a tough old boar?
There are two issues here...firstly I want to know the boar will have a clean death and not suffer through lack of 'clout' and secondly will the FAO be satisfied and pass a 6.5 x 55 for boar....anyone heard of calibre less than .270 being accepted before??

Cheers

Pete

Just looked at some reloading data and if I am correct its possible to get a 160 grain 6.5 bullet head to 2251 foot pounds ....and if say you had .270 head going to say 2440 foot pounds thats a difference of 189 foot pound ....Im kinda thinking thats going to sting Mr Pig and he wouldnt know the difference or what hit him. Yes I know you can get .270 higher but im using this as an example.

Orion
06-08-2010, 19:52
Pete, as you are already discovering there are two questions here.

Firstly, and to your credit you are trying to ascertain if the 6.5x55 with the loading(s) mentioned will result in a quick and humane kill on boar. The answer, as you will note from several respondents is a resounding yes - particularly from the european based forum contributors - although with driven boar the bigger the better as the saying goes.

The second can be answered with the following: Wild Boar have no specific primary legislation applicable, (as deer do with the Deer Acts), which dictate which calibres/muzzle velocity/energy/bullet weight must be used or when any closed seasons should be applied - the last being something which IMHO needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. Therefore, as Ogive has intimated, the legislation which offers them any protection is the all-encompassing WM(Protection)A 1996 and possibly the AWA2006, (although I'm not too sure how the later applies to shooting as it is more to do with animals rendered into captivity via cage traps etc.). Therefore, shooting and wounding them with an unsuitable (small) calibre might constitute an offence under the WMA 1996 if ever a prosecution was mounted, although I've got to say it would be highly unlikely to get anywhere even if someone had the evidence to get the ball rolling in the first place.

Given that there are no legal requirements regarding calibres etc. the arbitary .270 mentioned in the HO Guidance is parroted by whoever is next to write something regarding boar as you can see on the DI produced Best Practice. But just because it keeps getting repeated makes it neither law nor sensible, as you have noted by your investigation into the 6.5x55 versus .270 data. In answer to your question regarding anyone having less than .270 conditioned for boar, I have one simple condition covering all my rifles and ammo (including 12 bore slug) which allows them to be used on 'any other lawful quarry' which puts the onus on me to decide which calibre is suitable for which species. Now obviously I wouldn't use the .22RF on boar, but theoretically if I was sitting in a high seat with the .22/250 loaded with a suitable bullet weight/construction I could head shoot a pig - it would be my call. The .308 is obviously no problem with a suitable deer legal round and neither, for me, would the 6.5x57 I am looking to obtain this winter, and which has near identical ballistics as your swede.

If you are looking to approach your firearms department with a view to obtaining a specific condition for boar on your 6.5x55 then I would suggest that you prepare a supporting document that compares it to the .270 and maybe also include a bit of research about what the continentals are using. Either that or just go for the 'any other lawful quarry' and don't mention boar and see what you get.

Jagare
06-08-2010, 21:12
Here in Sweden the 6.5x55 is the smallest Class 1 weapon you can use on big game, thats any thing bigger than a roe.
Its accepted that the 6.5 will kill smaller pigs OK but it is not the ideal calibre for boar.
The 9.3x62, 9.3x57 and the 8mm have had a rebirth with the spread of boar here. Why go out under gunned when you are hunting a Potential dangerous animal ?
For all those who want to shoot them with unsuitable calibres i hope they are willing to follow the boar up when it runs of wounded.




www.prokennel.se (http://www.prokennel.se)

finnbear270
06-08-2010, 22:15
I'm working towards trying these on Boar,:D

john.d.m
07-08-2010, 09:33
Big good quality heavy bullet, and most importantly, put in the right place will do the job.
But theres alsorts of typical law/guideline/reccomendation(or other bol****) from the police or any other body who wants to have their five peneth worth.
When someone eventually states a calibre/bullet weight and says thats it, thats what you must use, if will make life easier for the U.K hunters, it will probably mean alot less internet forum usage on the subject though:-D
When someone finds the answer, perhaps they could find the "law" thats states the maximum calibre for deer/boar in the U.K ?;) so all the local forces that stop people having decent sized rifles can rectify that too.:lol:

Dan Newcombe
09-08-2010, 13:46
I shot a lot of feral pigs in Australia with a .22-250 and some unspecified soft point bullets (might have even been PPU?). At the time it never entered my mind that they wouldnt do the job and i just got on with it. There were some pretty big pigs at times as well, i never had a problem.

My mate was a professional shooter and he used a .222. Mine were mostly head shot and his were all head shot.

BUT

I wouldnt used one now, i would always go for something bigger. Suppose all the bumpf you hear about actually knocks your confidence a bit as i would say the .22-250 isnt really up to the job nowadays.

Ask the police if you can use the 6.5, show them the energies etc that you will be getting and then ask why you cant have the 6.5. If they wont let you, then apply for a .375 or a .416 because it is so important to have a big round for pigs!!

Dan

Muir
10-08-2010, 02:04
Here in the US we are having an epidemic spread of wild or feral pigs that is quickly spreading. They are already out of Texas and into Colorado. They are claiming that within 10 years they will be half way across Montana towards Canada. There will be no season on these animals and no caliber restrictions, I'm sure. Here we say "You takes your chances and Pays your dues" when it comes to dangerous game. With that said, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot boar with a 160 grain 6.5x55 round loaded to snort but I might side with Finn on his caliber choice given the option. :D ~Muir

PS: What word on the pea shooter, Finn??

Heym SR20
10-08-2010, 11:29
I would have thought more important than choice of calibre per se, choice of bullet type is much more important. Pigs are tough animals and penetration is vital, particularly on smaller calibres - err on the side of thick jacketed tough bullets that are quite heavy for calibre and put it in the right place. Many bullets (eg smaller calibre balistic tips) designed for rapid expansion would not be a good choice. The RWS website has a good chart showing what cartridges and bullets are suitable for Boar.

Hales Smut
10-08-2010, 13:22
Indeed , good bullets and penetration are important. For continental use my choice would always be a Browning BAR in 300 win mag with a good strong 180/200/220 grain bullet. Excellent for pigs of any size in every possible condition. Bad light, driven ,high seat, crop protection, etc......

Tartan_Terrier
14-08-2010, 19:42
Here in Denmark the minimum requirement for wild boar is a bullet weight of at least 9g (139 grains) having at least 2700 joules of energy at 100 metres, or a bullet weight of at least 10g (154 grains) and 2000 joules at 100 metres. Examples of suitable calibres in the guidelines are 6.5x55, .308, and .30-06, as well as larger and more powerful calibres.

YukonT
20-01-2011, 17:09
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I am gathering here there is no official, legally binding, minimum calibre for boar in the UK.

Which begs the question, who has the final say in what calibre(s) can or cannot be used?!

Orion
20-01-2011, 18:02
Generally speaking, Firearms Licensing will control it via a condition allowing WB on your FAC - and they will usually adhere to the arbitarily 'recommended' minimum of .270 as per the Home Office Guidance.

Some may be lucky enough to have the 'any other lawful quarry' condition, which could be taken to include boar, (not tested through the courts yet though AFAIK), and/or might have a truly 'open' FAC which means they can make the decision on what calibre is reasonable or legal to use on any quarry species - a far more sensible way of doing things IMHO.

roedeerred
20-01-2011, 18:31
If 6.5 was good enough for Mr Bell and his Elephants then its good enough for boar.A quality bullet and good placement must be the two most important things.i used that argument with flo when I got them on my last variation.most of the time its not the equipment its the clot behind the stock.:stir:

Paul at Fechan
20-01-2011, 18:44
Just to stir the pot a bit... if your area choses to allow boar to be shot under the general condition for estate/wildlilife management then while the guidance recommends .270, a lesser calibre would be fine since there is no written law on this.

Orion
20-01-2011, 20:09
Just to stir the pot a bit... if your area choses to allow boar to be shot under the general condition for estate/wildlilife management then while the guidance recommends .270, a lesser calibre would be fine since there is no written law on this.

Maybe you might add the proviso that the 'estate/wildlife management' condition must include the use of the firearm, and not just be the 'universal' condition that was cobbled together for the possession and use of expanding ammo/missiles that the majority have on their FAC. ;)

countrysports5
30-01-2011, 16:39
Here in Denmark the minimum requirement for wild boar is a bullet weight of at least 9g (139 grains) having at least 2700 joules of energy at 100 metres, or a bullet weight of at least 10g (154 grains) and 2000 joules at 100 metres. Examples of suitable calibres in the guidelines are 6.5x55, .308, and .30-06, as well as larger and more powerful calibres.

In most parts of Northern Europe, it's by energy (actually just like here) . The minimum energy of the bullet at 100 metres should be 2,100 Joules]. Calibre is not stated. It happens that the 6.5 is OK but only certain bullet weights will comply. All calibres from 7mm and above are OK. Why the UK authorities appear to ignore what happens in other countries where they have had a longer tradition & knowledge about shooting wild boar than us, beats me.
We are, after all, in the EU

Orion
30-01-2011, 17:31
Why the UK authorities appear to ignore what happens in other countries where they have had a longer tradition & knowledge about shooting wild boar than us, beats me.
We are, after all, in the EU

Have a look at the recommendations in the Wild Boar Best Practice Guides and you might be even more bemused. :D

http://www.wild-boar.org.uk/pdf/WildBoar_shooting.pdf

"When using shot cartridges the shotgun should preferably be fully choked, using full loads of AAA or SSG shot. Smaller or larger shot are not recommended". :shock:

JabaliHunter
30-01-2011, 18:02
If 6.5 was good enough for Mr Bell and his Elephants then its good enough for boar.A quality bullet and good placement must be the two most important things.i used that argument with flo when I got them on my last variation.most of the time its not the equipment its the clot behind the stock.:stir:
So you can reliably sneak to within 20 paces of a boar and hit it in the brain?

Milligan
30-01-2011, 19:18
So would a .308 loaded with 180gr be adequate?
By adequate I don't mean "might get away with it", I mean confidently able to drop the pig if connected properly.

Tamus
30-01-2011, 19:22
So would a .308 loaded with 180gr be adequate?
By adequate I don't mean "might get away with it", I mean confidently able to drop the pig if connected properly.

Yes.

robbobsam
30-01-2011, 21:16
Can anyone tell me the minimum calbre for wild boar in the UK. Ive seen on here .270 , .308 30-06 etc. Ive also read 6.5 x 55, which is my reason for asking as I home load 6.5 and have read many articles stating that when used with the correct bullet weight and powders it can have a performance approaching 30-06 levels...probabley the lower end of 30-06? So if thats the case would the upper end of 6.5 be a better choice than a lower end of .270?

Can anyone clear this one up for me please?

Cheers

pete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR-HwPvoEOA

The above video shows quite clearly that shot placement is everything.

We all know that the firearms rules across the UK are totally irrational and inconsistent from one county to the next. I certainly wouldn't ever advocate shooting a boar with such a small calibre as a .17HMR, but as others on here have said in other countries smaller calibres are legal and very effective if the bullet is placed on the right spot. Countries like USA, Canada and Africa do a lot more big game hunting than we in the UK will ever do. I think we need to listen to what they have to say.

IMHO we need to spend less time worrying about calibre and more time worrying about hitting the right spot.

chickenman
30-01-2011, 21:36
I couldnt agree more Robbo...though looks like the second shot in that vid was iffy lol

Flanker
02-02-2011, 20:29
[QUOTE=robbobsam;179044]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR-HwPvoEOA

The above video shows quite clearly that shot placement is everything.

We all know that the firearms rules across the UK are totally irrational and inconsistent from one county to the next. I certainly wouldn't ever advocate shooting a boar with such a small calibre as a .17HMR, but as others on here have said in other countries smaller calibres are legal and very effective if the bullet is placed on the right spot. Countries like USA, Canada and Africa do a lot more big game hunting than we in the UK will ever do. I think we need to listen to what they have to say.

IMHO we need to spend less time worrying about calibre and more time worrying about hitting the right spot.

Good point about shot placement, but the shooter is complete nitwit to have tried it!