Deer Numbers Scotland

somerled333

Well-Known Member
I get a lot of hunters from england always going on about the deer numbers in scotland, it seems in popular magazines and reviews deer are always out of control in scotland and destroying our habitat, I am fed up with this as I trully beleive the deer numbers are reasonable and in my area deer numbers have slowly went down year after year because of increased shooting all year round and at night, does anyone think or know that we have a problem with over grazing deer that are destroying our landscape as I think they are not that bad, and does anyone know how many reds are in scotland ?
 
OK don't shoot the messenger these are published figures not mine.

1960 100,000

1970 155, 000 powers that be think this is about the figure we can sustain

Mid 1980s 300, 000


2005 400,000

present day 300,000
 
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I believe the published figures are a fair reflection of whats happened over the last five decades i.e a general increase to a peak last decade followed by a decrease in the last wee while. I've worked in north Scotland since the mid eighties and noticed the increase. As a forester I see the damage to commercial tree crops and to the native woodland. It is the native woodland which have suffered the most as they have failed to regenerate for generations and many remmnant blocks have declined or disappeared. Deer and sheep are the two main culprits but in many areas deer are now public enemy number one.

The poor condition of hill ground has also come under scrutiny (SSSIs and SACs in particular) and again deer are part of the problem.

As I see it deer numbers will need to come down if the above issues are to be addressed; it has already started however its not over yet as many of the sites will be monitored for some time to come. Also note that other areas are about to come under management this next year or two.

I've posted before on this subject (woodland sites) stating that I like the short, sharp shock approach. This would involve fencing all or part of the project site, shooting every deer inside and dropping the fence as soon as regeneration is robust. Then repeat on another chunk of ground until all is well. This approach will achieve the objectives without ruining adjacent ground, from a sporting point of view. I don't like the cull a bit/monitor a bit/cull a bit more approach as both sides often loose out as the deer herd dwindles and the regeneration is below par; plus it all happens over a protracted period.

regards
 
Well it looks like iam wrong and deer numbers are increasing, and your right about fencing a bit off, shoot everything and then open up when the frees get big enough, i do that myself, also been trying to get regen on the open hill, have discovered that to get trees growing and staying growing you need deer down to about 2 per 100 ha's.
 
OK don't shoot the messenger these are published figures not mine.

1960 100,000

1970 155, 000 powers that be think this is about the figure we can sustain

Mid 1980s 300, 000


2005 400,000

present day 300,000

These numbers for for red deer. Now add roe, sika both expanding numbers and range and local fallow population and 500,000 would probably not be an underestimate.

I am sure that in some areas numbers of red will be down but in others have increased.
 
Cervus you bring up a very good point and seeing first hand what sika do in a wood i think they are harder on trees than reds . Roe have no real lasting effect and can be kept of trees with a plastic pipe.

Sika numbers even in this cull everything times have increased there numbers and a different approach will be needed or we will loose our iconic Red Deer only to be faced by a far greater alien pest.;)
 
Cervus you bring up a very good point and seeing first hand what sika do in a wood i think they are harder on trees than reds . Roe have no real lasting effect and can be kept of trees with a plastic pipe.

Sika numbers even in this cull everything times have increased there numbers and a different approach will be needed or we will loose our iconic Red Deer only to be faced by a far greater alien pest.;)

You mention plastic keeping roe off the trees a FC ranger told me that is thier aim (FC) to be able to plant broadleaves without plastic,bad news if your a deer....
 
Roe have no real lasting effect and can be kept of trees with a plastic pipe.
;)

Not sure about the economics of plastic pipes on big areas or if plastic can be used on firs and spruces. Perhaps Scotspine can comment as a forester?
 
We have them all over the place in the central belt areas thousands of acres and they are reusable they are not normally round pines because roe deer don't bother them to much unless really pushed for food but i have seen them round Larch with great success.
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Not sure about the economics of plastic pipes on big areas or if plastic can be used on firs and spruces. Perhaps Scotspine can comment as a forester?

Only economical on small areas of less than a couple of hectares.

Not good for conifers as you can get stability problems. Many foresters use them to protect pockets of broadleaves within commercial plantations as deer tend to hit the broadleaves hard. 1.2m for Roe but 1.8m needed to beat Sika and Red. Shorter ones good if rabbits/hares/voles abundant plus most species can tolerate them at this length.
Some foresters are tempted to use them on a large scale as an insurance policy against pests, weeds and browsing animals. I tend to think that this can lead to neglect as you get lulled into a false sense of security. Having said that if you just trying to get a few trees away they do the trick
 
Over the last decade Roe numbers are on the increase in my area. Possibly a change in habits as well - now regularly see large groups of Roe. Previously groups of 3 or 4 would be the norm, I am now seeing groups containing numbers in the high 'teens.
Cheerio
 
Roe34 now isn't that a good thing seeing deer is fantastic and we should some times look at the positives that deer human interaction can bring.
 
No complaints!! Only an observation which makes travelling around the area so much more interesting.
Cheers
 
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