professional hot tank blueing

bewsher500

Well-Known Member
who does it in Scotland and what can I expect cost wise for a rifle barrel and action?
its already stripped so that should speed it up and keep cost down

I have search but can only find reference to Alex Dalgleish. Any others?

thanks
 
who does it in Scotland and what can I expect cost wise for a rifle barrel and action?
its already stripped so that should speed it up and keep cost down

I have search but can only find reference to Alex Dalgleish. Any others?

thanks

If I were in your position I'd give the guys at Border Barrels or Jackson Rifles a phonecall. As I understand it neither of those outfits blue in-house but certainly Border gets a lot of barrels done so they might put you on to the firm who does it.
 
Stripping is easy polishing for a proper high gloss blacking like BSA and P-H used is another matter fot an example I polished the old blacking off this BSA Monarch and polished the barrel some more:-

PA300053.jpg


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It looked fairly good but as you can see close up those turning/machining marks from profiling show and will show through the blacking. It has to be polished like chrome or glass. Bit like this:-

P2090125.jpg


P2090131.jpg


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Notice the turning marks did not come completely out on the barrel shank. He would have liked to take it further and get a better finish but then the danger of removing the stupidly etched proof marks rears it's ugly head. As it is on the receiver the BNP stamp has been lightened by the polishing.
 
I can mirror polish, I have a polishing machine that I did some bike frames on. like a mirror.
that is not the problem

problem is the hot tank bit

I have been quoted £65 with no real confirmation of finish
this seems a lot to degrease and lightly polish something then chuck it in a tank for a few hours
 
I can mirror polish, I have a polishing machine that I did some bike frames on. like a mirror.
that is not the problem

problem is the hot tank bit

I have been quoted £65 with no real confirmation of finish
this seems a lot to degrease and lightly polish something then chuck it in a tank for a few hours

Then DIY! Finish is entirely down to prep, If you looked at brithunters turning marks you will see what I mean.
He looks like he span it in a lathe for initial abrasive. (not the way to do it!)
Lightly polish? Well obviously little idea of actually how long it takes to polish steel.
If you know what you are doing run your own tanks, taking into account chemicals and fuel to run them.
 
no, £65 plus £60 petrol to take it across the country seems a lot to drop something in a tank and watch it for a few hours!!
 
no, £65 plus £60 petrol to take it across the country seems a lot to drop something in a tank and watch it for a few hours!!

Honestly you will not equip yourself to be able to black a barrel and action for that money.
I do my own blacking and have made the required tanks etc. so know the costs.
You could, of course, get a tin of duplicolor and spray the parts black! :p
 
I can mirror polish, I have a polishing machine that I did some bike frames on. like a mirror.
that is not the problem

problem is the hot tank bit

I have been quoted £65 with no real confirmation of finish
this seems a lot to degrease and lightly polish something then chuck it in a tank for a few hours

Brownells will sell you a pamphlet on hot salt bluing and anything you need to get started.

I have done some hot bluing. I worked with a fellow named Waymon Kendall who started his career working for Roy Weatherby in is California custom shop back int he 1960's. Waymon was the bluing master but I helped him with all the prep work. In his shop there was no power buffing, and I know why. Many rifles have been ruined esthetically buy some heavy handed fool running the metal work over a power buffer. The sharp edges and stampings get rounded and screw holed get wallowed. Waymon hand polished actions with various grades of cloth abrasive mounted on appropriate backings; flats for flats, loose for curves. It would take him the better part of a day to do most of the polish on a bolt action rifle. When polished to smooth metal (gloss isn't always desirable: I hate it) he would often run the works lightly over a powered wire wheel that had .005" wires. It put a soft burnish on the metal that made the bluing look ten miles deep. His salts came from Brownells tho there are some recipes around for custom salts. I have several in my files should you go that route.

One thig about bluing is that you need to pretty much have an outbuilding to do it in. Three tanks is about the norm (water, cleaner/degreaser like Oakite, then the salts), with burners and ventilation. Prep and bluing is best done in different rooms as bluing salts will corrode metal in the room. Bluing tanks will eventually be eaten away from the salts and will need replacing. Salts run at 390F degrees so it's dangerous. You will get spotty burns no matter how hard you try to avoid it.

Have you ever thought of rust bluing?? It takes longer and has some pitfalls, but you can do it in about anythere with less equipment.~Muir
 
Brownells will sell you a pamphlet on hot salt bluing and anything you need to get started.

I have done some hot bluing. I worked with a fellow named Waymon Kendall who started his career working for Roy Weatherby in is California custom shop back int he 1960's. Waymon was the bluing master but I helped him with all the prep work. In his shop there was no power buffing, and I know why. Many rifles have been ruined esthetically buy some heavy handed fool running the metal work over a power buffer. The sharp edges and stampings get rounded and screw holed get wallowed. Waymon hand polished actions with various grades of cloth abrasive mounted on appropriate backings; flats for flats, loose for curves. It would take him the better part of a day to do most of the polish on a bolt action rifle. When polished to smooth metal (gloss isn't always desirable: I hate it) he would often run the works lightly over a powered wire wheel that had .005" wires. It put a soft burnish on the metal that made the bluing look ten miles deep. His salts came from Brownells tho there are some recipes around for custom salts. I have several in my files should you go that route.

One thig about bluing is that you need to pretty much have an outbuilding to do it in. Three tanks is about the norm (water, cleaner/degreaser like Oakite, then the salts), with burners and ventilation. Prep and bluing is best done in different rooms as bluing salts will corrode metal in the room. Bluing tanks will eventually be eaten away from the salts and will need replacing. Salts run at 390F degrees so it's dangerous. You will get spotty burns no matter how hard you try to avoid it.

Have you ever thought of rust bluing?? It takes longer and has some pitfalls, but you can do it in about anythere with less equipment.~Muir

Trouble is your brownells stuff is unobtainium here!
Rust bluing/browning is really satisfying if you can make up the rust solutions - you can rust with saline if you want but not so nice a finish as a descent solution.
I have many 'recipes' for caustic bluing and rust bluing.
The hard part is the metal preparation. (a little less demanding for rust bluing as it is an acid etch)

Barrel - commercial finish
Muzzle cap - my Donthavemuchtimetodothis finish

IMG_0091 (Medium).jpg
 
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I have seen it done with a simple vinegar/distilled water mix. The results were reported to be good. If you can build a wooden damp-locker and control the humidity, you can get some sterling results . It's a little frightening the first time you do it, isn't it? having to card off the rust?? Makes you wonder what you've gotten into! ~Muir
 
Honestly you will not equip yourself to be able to black a barrel and action for that money.
I do my own blacking and have made the required tanks etc. so know the costs.
You could, of course, get a tin of duplicolor and spray the parts black! :p

Thanks, whilst I appreciate your comments, I didn't say I could DIY for that cost, I just don't think £100+ is a fair price for dropping something in a tank. these are stripped parts, cleaned and polished, not me dropping off a complete rifle.

If you do this yourself perhaps you would be good enough to enlighten the less informed to exactly what is needed rather than telling me I should paint it, won't be able to do it and can't afford it.
 
I have been quoted £65 with no real confirmation of finish

If you don't mind me asking... Who quoted you this price? as I have to say it really doesn't seem too bad a deal.

Incidentally, How much do you think a reasonable job of bluing a single barrel should cost?
 
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If I can interject, it's a little more complicated than just dipping it in some caustic salts and wiping it dry. It is a process and tho you've polished the works, it's still in need of degreasing then tending during the process. If you've so much as simply touched it with bare hands since the polish it will need attention. As I mentioned, it's a somewhat unpleasant process that I would gladly pay to avoid. ~Muir
 
If you don't mind me asking... Who quoted you this price? as I have to say it really doesn't seem too bad a deal.

Incidentally, How much do you think a reasonable job of bluing a single barrel should cost?

http://www.deerhunter.co.uk/

I
t is not a bad price per se...its just a hell of a long way to go....twice!
Its a 110+mile round trip. and I cant have it done while I wait so will have to go back
closer to £180 all in with fuel


 
Then DIY! Finish is entirely down to prep, If you looked at brithunters turning marks you will see what I mean.
He looks like he span it in a lathe for initial abrasive. (not the way to do it!)
Lightly polish? Well obviously little idea of actually how long it takes to polish steel.
If you know what you are doing run your own tanks, taking into account chemicals and fuel to run them.

Joe the flange was skimmed on the lathe to make sure it was perfectly concentric with the chamber after clocking up the chamber. Those were turning marks. The barrel came to me in the white chambered and profiled. The chamber was 7x64 I then changed this to 280 AI. The surface polished was lengthwise and also spun in the lathe. This was an initial clean up. I am not a gun finisher nor a polisher:-

P2090130.jpg


This si the muzzle after polishing and blacking. No marks left in that. The chaber end was hampered by those stupid etched proof marks.They should be stamped not etched :doh:.

Wish I was still down south as I would have collered a chap I worked with at one place as he was a real wizard on the wheels.
 
If I can interject, it's a little more complicated than just dipping it in some caustic salts and wiping it dry. It is a process and tho you've polished the works, it's still in need of degreasing then tending during the process. If you've so much as simply touched it with bare hands since the polish it will need attention. As I mentioned, it's a somewhat unpleasant process that I would gladly pay to avoid. ~Muir

Actually it is not a complicated process, the de-greasing is simple enough, the caustic black is simple too as is the post wash and dry.
Its just a 'nasty' process and you need to be careful about working with hot caustic chemicals.
Nothing at all mythical about it!
 
Thanks, whilst I appreciate your comments, I didn't say I could DIY for that cost, I just don't think £100+ is a fair price for dropping something in a tank. these are stripped parts, cleaned and polished, not me dropping off a complete rifle.

If you do this yourself perhaps you would be good enough to enlighten the less informed to exactly what is needed rather than telling me I should paint it, won't be able to do it and can't afford it.


The paint comment did include the stuck out tongue smiley, maybe you missed it?

you need 3 tanks to accept the parts
1, wash-down / degrease preheat
2, Hot caustic bath
3, post black wash neutralise bath

Heaters for above
Chemicals around the £50 mark to make up the tank.
Personal protective equipment.

Now if you are serious about attempting this pm me and I will explain the complete process.
If I were you I'd take the travel charge on the chin and give the guy the £65 to do the job.
 
When I had my 7mm08 built the action and new barrel were sent away for blueing this was quoted at £180 inc rfd to rfd which I thought was resonable and he done a fantastic job to boot .
 
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