Map reference points (in case of emergencies)

Erik Hamburger

Well-Known Member
Please some advise:

I am doing a H&S risk assessment for a site and want to mark a few way-points on the estate maps AND write down their map reference - what system is preferred by the emergency services (OS Map reference? Latitude/Longitude? Other?)

A bad experience last year (Where a road ambulance couldn't find a 'viewpoint' on a named road marked on OS maps) makes me ask this question, and I do not seem to be able to get a sensible reply from those who should know.

Thank you
 
Definately go for the 6 figure GB grid reference The two letter prefix followed by the 6 figures. Lat-Long is fine if you have a GPS or using a sea chart but all OS maps use the GB grid ref.
 
Pull the area up on google earth (google maps may work also).... Put the curser on the spot you want to mark, right click, and a little box will open with the grid coordinate.....
 
We have had some challenges in this department recently where, if there is no postcode, it comes up as unknown. Believe it or not this also happened at a railway station in Fife, never mind the middle of nowhere. We always advocated the 6 figure grid reference on the basis that it might be a mountain rescue team that was called out but it may be a plan to get the postcodes of the nearest houses also. I fully appreciate that in rural areas one code can cover a chunk of ground. Get a Spot device? I'll be very interested how this thread develops.
 
Pull the area up on google earth (google maps may work also).... Put the curser on the spot you want to mark, right click, and a little box will open with the grid coordinate.....

Thank you, but hat wasn't actually my question - I know how to get a grid reference.
The question was what system do the emergency services use/prefer?
 
Well things are not getting any clearer.

I have now spoken to two Police officers.
Answers 1: We use 'Eastings and Nordings' and can work out Longitude and Latitude from that. I do not know if the Ambulance and Fire service use the same or another system".
Answer 2 (Same County force): "We use the Javalin system. I do not know if the other emergency services use that as well or something else"

Obviously I just reported what they said, and you may well think that I feel that they are totally confused, but I couldn't possibly comment.

However, on the positive side, I was offered a PCSO to go on the sites with me and 'log' the reference points, for future reference. So that is a positive step forward.

And there was me thinking that the UK Police generally did their job unarmed...but a Javalin system? Whow! ;)
 
Erik, in your assessments which emergency service do you reckon will most likely be needed. I would be inclined to contact the control room of that service and ask what system they use. I know from personal experience that different services use different systems. In some rural areas in the absence of a post code the system will default to a grid reference for some branches of the emergency services, while others will default to latitude and longitude. Your best bet is to get the answer from the horses mouth of whichever service you think you will most likely need. Talk to the organ grinder, not the monkey...
 
I have no idea wot sevice uses wot BUT i stuck a poster up on shoot wall with postcodes(between 2), grid ref and long/lat for hut plus 2 other spots on the shoot.
I also wrote a brief description of wot roads shoot was on, name/number and where it goes for the non locals.
Told them to take a photo of it on there fancy phones, dunno if anyone ever did? Fortunately never been needed (touch wood)
 
The fire authority that I worked for used predominantly postcodes for urban locations and six figure ordnance survey grid references for rural locations. They also had the facility of converting ordnance survey to latitude and longitude and used lat/long in some situations. Most emergency services use all three systems depending on the task.

I recently completed a risk assessment for a shoot and on the emergency action card I listed all three i.e. Postcode of nearest building, six figure ordnance survey grid reference and latitude/longitude. I also gave a description of the location just in case it was necessary to call in an air ambulance or search and rescue helicopter.
 
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From personal experience, don't rely on the emergency services being able to interpret an OS grid reference.

Last summer whilst fishing on the North Tyne one of our party slipped and broke her ankle. I had a ten-figure OS grid reference but was surprised when the emergency operator told me that they couldn't actually do anything with a grid reference . She asked me where I was but I had to explain that we were on a beat down by the river and I had no idea of the nearest village. I knew the beat was off the road to Wark, and that there was a quarry on the opposite side of the road, but that was it. The operator was reciting village names and road numbers that meant nothing to me. Eventually I had to fire up the iPad and use one of the mapping Apps that I have to be able to look at a road atlas. The ambulance turned up a few minutes later and the patient was taken away to hospital.

In another situation I've used postcodes for the paramedics, and that's proven equally problematic, where the postcode covered an area of probably 1 square mile and twenty or so dwellings. If they had all been on the same straight road it would have been easy, but when they are spread out over several country lanes it becomes a problem.


My suggestion would be to have the grid reference, but also to note some other relevant details to identify the location - nearest road name/junction, farms, landmarks, postcode, etc. as well as having the grid reference.
 
That surprises/disappoints me Willie as most of the emergency services that I have had any contact with in recent years use data to cab mapping systems. I know from bitter experience that the ambulances in Wiltshire had such systems more than 20 years ago.
 
Handy little pocket tool,

f1_1.JPG
 
Erik
Another thing to consider if using 6 figure map refs. then that puts you to within 100m, i.e. the map ref. is the bottom left hand corner of a 100m square. You will need to mark the spot on the ground within that square that you intend to be the meeting point unless a good view of the whole square is possible.
 
i like to use X Y i have an app on my phone , used to 8 fig or 12 from the green days, at work we used uk street map to convert to os,or any other to send out in the job packs so all services could see the point of works including the HSE ,as some of our works was sub surface .

i have attached what we used it was good enough to find manhole chambers.
:tiphat:


  1. [h=3]Grid Conversion Results - Streetmap[/h]www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?GridConvert&type=postcode...




    OS X, 488625. OS Y, 237063. Post Code, MK7 6AA. Lat (WGS84), N52:01:30 ( 52.024914 ). Long (WGS84), W0:42:35 ( -0.709748 ). LR, SP886370. mX, -79008.


 
We also used 12 figure OS Paul, but in reality using the scale of maps that we had readily available before the garmins and computerised systems, the use of 12 figure references wasn't practical. In any case if we had to call in a chopper 100 metres was close enough.
 
That surprises/disappoints me Willie as most of the emergency services that I have had any contact with in recent years use data to cab mapping systems. I know from bitter experience that the ambulances in Wiltshire had such systems more than 20 years ago.

My reaction was very much the same. Having been schooled in an era when being able to read and interpret an Ordnance Survey map was part of the geography curriculum, and having helped to produce a couple of risk assessments for the game shoots I've been involved in, I was shocked that the emergency co-ordinator couldn't make use of a grid reference.

Steve, I used roamers like that when I was taking part in motor rallies at Uni :D
 
I could't agree more feller only i was in a place that you could't see the tops of the trees let alone they see you and garman or satnav were only used by robbi the robot ( danger will robinson) :rofl:

long live the prismatic compass.:tiphat:
but ha ho mines someplace ??? garman dashslut rules :old:


We also used 12 figure OS Paul, but in reality using the scale of maps that we had readily available before the garmins and computerised systems, the use of 12 figure references wasn't practical. In any case if we had to call in a chopper 100 metres was close enough.
 
In my ( short ) time with SAR here in NZ, I have learned that apparently chopper pilots/navigators in particular, do not like or use grid refs, only Lat/Long.
So if your plan is to include aheli vac spot, it would pay to include lat/long as well as a grid ref.

I regularly hunt with a couple of guys of a similar age to myself, who have no idea about using a map and grid refs and even struggle with a compass. Thank god we all carry a PLB is all I can say ;)
 
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