Availability of Stalking for New Stalkers

ytene

Well-Known Member
I throw this thread in as a discussional point..have we reached a period of time where stalking availability is so restricted,other than pay stalking ,that gaining experience and confidence is both difficult and hugely expensive for the average newcomer? Landowners are fully aware of the financial gains to be had from stalking and the opportunities for deer stalking are rare as rocking horse s..t, !
 
Ytene i support your post fully mate and may i also add even were you can get stalking the future legisaltion will make it near impossible to go stalking with out a mentor or paid guide. You will need all the bits of paper. But you can still practice with the safty side with your rifles shooting other animals and once you are confident with that type of shooting you can move on to deer .
 
I totally agree with ytene and it is a shame that around our area that nobody at all will give you a chance to go on there land just incase you are eyeing the place up to take the quads etc.I think give it 5 year or so and the normal working class person wont beable to take part in there sport/passion as the costs are going through the roof i have just heard of a chap that he had to pay £120 per stalk for roe does and did not even see anything ,where is it going to end.
 
I think ytene makes a valid point. Unless you are fortunate in your circle of friends, you have to put your hand in your pocket. Looking at it from a landowner's point of view though, how many would allow a total stranger free access to their land with a fullbore rifle?

Andrew
 
I think you have a point ytene but also I think that we as stalkers have to understand that to make money out of land in this country (without selling it to be turned into houses) it has to be worked very hard. There is money to be made so they make it. Sometimes I do wonder about the cost of taking cull animals though. Seems to be a bit high given you quite often have to buy the beast off them as well. (I do appreciate having a cull and the meat sold vs selling cull animals to stalkers is not a simple cost equation. I'd be grateful if somebody had seen some numbers on this actually.)

KR,

Scrummy
 
This is a difficult issue. I am clearly extremly fortunate in that all my shooting is free, be it rabbits/pigeons, vermin, foxs and deer.

Its come through being close friends to landowners and approaching others in the correct manner.

I have come into deer stalking up the ladder so to speak, .22lr for rabbits, then c/F for foxes and then because there is deer on the ground stalking. I supose through this process i have built up considerable experience, knowledge and contacts which have resulted in my current situation.

If you havent got this behind you it must be extremly difficult to get on the ladder.

It is often a game of chance and luck. 20 yrs ago I moved frowm Shropshire to Avon and left thousands of acres of shooting. I was lost, yet one day I called into a local farmer and asked if he owned a field of barley which was being hammered by pigeon. He said no, cause it was not his field, but i was welcome to shoot the pigeon on the wheat behind his farm. Next day I shot 50. He was pleased and inquired what else i shot, I told him and hey presto cart blanc to shoot on his farm. Its now its more of a case of a phone call from him saying he has got some more ground and can i sor out the rabbits/foxs.

Never looked back.

The problem is getting your first lucky break.

It does help if you keep your eyes open. Daily I drive from Bristol to Taunton and I see roe almost daily. The same ones are in the same area and clearly they are not being stalked (or there are a hell of a lot) so if i was inclined I suss out the ground, google it, find out the owners and then make some enquiries. You only need to get one yes.

Clearly Hampshire might be a bit more difficult but you just got to push on doors and one will open.

Good luck, if you perserve it will happen.

D
 
I throw this thread in as a discussional point..have we reached a period of time where stalking availability is so restricted,other than pay stalking ,that gaining experience and confidence is both difficult and hugely expensive for the average newcomer? Landowners are fully aware of the financial gains to be had from stalking and the opportunities for deer stalking are rare as rocking horse s..t, !

You can only blame the greed of your own countrymen ,who want it all, making stalking totally over priced keeping those that work for a living out of it, or traveling to Scotland 3 or 4 times a year to stalk on a syndicate.

Extremely sad England has more species of deer than Scotland ,and more ground area than Scotland has, only you can change the problems, use the likes of the newly formed Deer initiative to address the problems, get letters into the BASC And BDS magazines airing the problems , there are hundreds of stalker with the same problems .

It is down to the stalkers to change things .
 
The notion of having to pay a not insignificant amount of money just to gain experience is one that I am fairly unfamiliar with. Back home in Canada, due to the abundance of land not owned by anyone, i.e. Crown land, the transfer of money between stalkers is only really necesary if you are a non-resident or you require a guide. It seems to me that given that virtually all UK land has been leased/owned by someone or other, the need to generate funds from that land has resulted in the increasing exclusivity of stalking. I find it incredibly paradoxical that it can cost upwards of £100 a day to stalk in the UK, while my brother takes week long Dall sheep outings in Canada for the cost of food and transportation. Just my 2p.
 
Over the years obtaining shooting rights has become much harder. Not only are landowners becoming aware of the financial opportunities but some DMGs and similar set ups are taking over very large tracts of land which is effectively shot over by extremely small numbers of stalkers. Years ago there were lots of opportunities for the "little guy" to get a small parcel of land to shoot over, this is now disappearing.
I know of pigeon shooters who had ground to shoot over for years, this has now gone, blocks of thousands of acres let to people who let it out for odd days, I am afraid we are beginning to see the end of free shooting as it has always been. A great shame!
 
My experience reflects those of others. I have paid for my local stalking and travel to Scotland to shoot on my syndicate ground.

In my local area there is ground which is well known for holding deer. Some of these areas are ancient and quite famous. These "known" deer areas are stitched up by either private individuals paying for the privalege or by DMGs. Most of the DMGs I have come across don't have any vacancies for "stangers", such as me.

However, I still hope to pick up some local ground and remain upbeat about doing so. In my area the increase in the numbers of Muntjac and the damage they cause to crops is probably the best opportunity. Muntjac are appearing in areas not previously known for deer and they are establishing themselves well. I don't have a huge amount of spare time and a small parcel of land with a modest amount of deer for me to observe, learn about and manage is all I need. I remain hopeful that in due course I will be able to live the dream !!!.

Cheers,

Bob
 
Over the years obtaining shooting rights has become much harder. Not only are landowners becoming aware of the financial opportunities but some DMGs and similar set ups are taking over very large tracts of land which is effectively shot over by extremely small numbers of stalkers. Years ago there were lots of opportunities for the "little guy" to get a small parcel of land to shoot over, this is now disappearing.
I know of pigeon shooters who had ground to shoot over for years, this has now gone, blocks of thousands of acres let to people who let it out for odd days, I am afraid we are beginning to see the end of free shooting as it has always been. A great shame!

I agree to a point, it is getting a lot harder to obtain stalking and sadly there are so many newcomer's to stalking finding it hard,

and landowners are well aware of the finacial gain aspects involved.

That said, I'm not so sure on the DMG'S, Etc, as some will not be the same chance as others, as it's not as easy to get stalking

as some would think, due to the fact the MAIN PLAYERS LIKE MONEY!!!

But defo a great shame.

Rgds, Buck.

PS. As Bob has said, it's down to stalkers to move forward the change.
 
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Looking at where you live, I can understand your frustration. I lived in Hampshire before moving to Suffolk and even getting pigoen shooting was difficult. However, I think it is just regional to some extent. It is also very much 'chicken and egg'! ie. you can't get ground without experience, but you can't get experience without ground!!
It will come though if you are determined! Not all landowners charge money either. I actually get paid to manage some of my areas and keep what I shoot on all of them!:cool:
The other consideration is that the countryside is getting smaller!
I also believe that Deer stalking has been given a lot more publicity in recent years which has led to a lot more people taking it up. That is the main reason why there isn't enough to go around!;)
Good Luck!
MS:)
 
I am a relative beginner and so have just recently been through the process of getting some ground. In a way I was lucky as I knew someone who had a very small area with deer on it that they would let me shoot over. However, this small area isn't much of a foothold and could be gone by tomorrow. I must highlight that all the stalkers I have actually come into contact with either in the real world or on this forum have been great but there do seem to be some little groups forming under the control of the sort of people that you immediately conclude should be in control of nothing.

As others have said the various little "clubs" people are setting up in order that they might consolodate their hold on the land in a local area are a worrying development. I am given to believe that in the area I have land there is an individual knocking doors and informing landowners that he is the rep of a deer management group (I'm not saying that he is in any way connected with any legit deer management group) and they are now managing all the stalking in the area so the landowner has to "evict" his normal people and turn control over to this little club. I suspect he is giving the impression that his deer management group has some sort of legal position and sanction and so it is the only deer control option open to the landowner. I am willing to bet that there is a lot more of this going on than we know about and there has certainly been some evidence of similar "you're not a member of my club" type stuff even on this forum.

The question of getting experience is also a tricky one for the beginner. I take about 4 paid days for red deer on the hill each year - that is about the max i can afford. Based on those days I might expect to shoot 2 deer a year and, quite simply, there is no way for a beginner working on a similar basis to get enough experience to ever get good at stalking. Again I think this situation suits some people who want little exams put in place so that the beginner trying to get experience actually has a reduced chance of ever gaining this experience and so presents no competition to the little clubs and their members. I note, for instance, that people who have the latest "qualification" always seem to become very keen that you now need this in order to get a lease, or a syndicate, or a rifle or whatever. Recently on this forum we saw discussion of yet another "thing" which the stalker "must" have if he is to go stalking. Now, often these suggestions are made with the best will in the world but the more restrictions we place on stalkers the more people we remove from taking part in the sport.

Having a large number of individual stalkers is important for us all I suspect as the big "clubs" which are currently grabbing land for their own benefit are probably just a phase. Most of them are not actually investing much cash and many do not have a lot of cash to invest. As they say the answer to 99.9% of questions is money and I suspect that many of the little clubs run by their own private Hitlers will soon fall victim to cash. As a result of their activities they will have reduced the number of stalkers in the local area and those who are present will have a certain dislike of the little club and its members. %They will also have gathered all the local stalking into one big unit making taking control of all of it a simple process. So, there will be no one to defend stalking against big money, and probably big money from overseas, and a lot of our stalking will be lost to the small man like myself.
 
Getting a crack at deer stalking has never been simpler or easier.

When I was a lad, just shortly after deer arrived in Scotland but a fair while after the guys with bigger sticks than me had taken over nearly all the land (except my wee bit) you could only get to go stalking where someone with one of those bigger sticks invited you or commanded you to go stalking. If you tried it any other way you were likely to get your head removed forthwith.

Nowadays, you can just tap a question into Google, and minutes later give over your credit card details to someone you've never met in some part of the country you've probably never even heard of and... bingo, you're booked to go stalking.
 
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The stalking is there it is just a case of geting your face known, being trustworthy, and being in the right place at the right time. If you try for long enough something will come up. The DMQ 1+2, {although many say they are flawed} help too.

It all costs money, it just depends how much you want to stalk deer.
 
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To add fuel to the fire...an extremely high profile deer manager once boasted that they" managed "30000 hectares, is that possible, laudable,I would suggest it is nigh on impossible to be at all effective on any of the ground with that amount of acreage..to cap it all they threatened to "prosecute" anyone found on the land!! The other factor is foreign stalkers who are willing to pay a lot of money and easily surplant Mr. Average ! :rolleyes:
 
To add fuel to the fire...an extremely high profile deer manager once boasted that they" managed "30000 hectares, is that possible, :

When you say 'manage', it can mean different things! It also depends largely upon the type of ground as to how much an individual can cope with.
I 'manage' in excess of 50,000 acres, but not on my own!;) I manage deer managers as well as deer!
MS:)
 
I throw this thread in as a discussional point..have we reached a period of time where stalking availability is so restricted,other than pay stalking ,that gaining experience and confidence is both difficult and hugely expensive for the average newcomer? Landowners are fully aware of the financial gains to be had from stalking and the opportunities for deer stalking are rare as rocking horse s..t, !

Ahhh!

I think I see what your gripe is now. You reckon you can't get something for nothing easily enough and you think that's not right... is that it?

btw, Please don't take offence at my forthright manner, I'm much misunderstood for that. It's just a question when all's said and done.
 
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