45/70 or 30/30? Marlin

I'm considering getting myself an under lever,
just can't decide which cal to go for.

It will be used for lowland woodland stalking, mainly roe, upto 100yards

The things I want to consider are,
cost of ammo, tho could home load
weight
noise
recoil
I would just get a 30/30 but worried it might not be up to the job if I bump into a red,
and I might go to Europe at some point and so not sure how good it would be on boar either.

regards
pete
 
I'm biased and would go 45-70 in a pre-remington Marlin. It'll do anything you want from roe on up. 30-30 will do just fine but big red and boar I don't know.

You would probably have to handload for either although 30-30 ammo would likely be easier to find.

I have a 45-120 in a 1885 highwall. If you would like to have a go sometime pm me and we could meet so you could get a rough idea of what it's like. My cast loads are about lever action 45-70 levels.
 
Either cartridge will clobber big deer in the woods. Just look at how many North American elk and moose have been killed with both of them. The blunt, cylindrical bullets of the .30-30 have an accuracy which will surprise you, and they expand, retain weight, and are not deflected by bones; they just drill through.

The .45-70 with a 300-gr bullet at 180-r at 1,800 to 2,000 FPS has reasonable recoil, is very accurate, and arrives with so much momentum, that it staggers game.

My recommendation: buy the rifle which speaks to you. That might be a Marlin 336, or a Marlin 1895 with long, tapered octagon barrel, a Winchester 94 Commemorative carbine with heavy octagon barrel. They will all serve your needs. Buy the one that makes you happy use.
 
Either cartridge will clobber big deer in the woods. Just look at how many North American elk and moose have been killed with both of them. The blunt, cylindrical bullets of the .30-30 have an accuracy which will surprise you, and they expand, retain weight, and are not deflected by bones; they just drill through.

The .45-70 with a 300-gr bullet at 180-r at 1,800 to 2,000 FPS has reasonable recoil, is very accurate, and arrives with so much momentum, that it staggers game.

My recommendation: buy the rifle which speaks to you. That might be a Marlin 336, or a Marlin 1895 with long, tapered octagon barrel, a Winchester 94 Commemorative carbine with heavy octagon barrel. They will all serve your needs. Buy the one that makes you happy use.

Agreed. My dad shot only one moose in his life and he knocked it dead with a 30-30 -not knowing he was "undergunned"!:) I have killed many deer with both cartridges and at 100 yards of less wouldn't hesitate to tackle the biggest deer with either. Go to your local shop and look at the selection and price of components and see how well either can stay fed. Often the 150-170 grain Flat Point or Round nose thirty cal bullets can be found for bargain prices as they have lost favor with the high velocity crowd. Some 45 cal components are hard to get for lack of demand. No point in having a gun you can't feed.~Muir
 
You won't go wrong with a .30/30 even if you bump into a Red because I imagine that'd be pretty close!
Have used one in the UK for the last 20 something years, it's easy to carry and as Muir said you'd find it surprisingly accurate - even with ugly flat nosed bullets!

Have thought about the 45/70 and if I did change it'd be the Marlin Classic 1895 but so far haven't found the need.
 
I've got a marlin 1894 lever action in 44 magnum which I use mainly for fun, I've got a 243 and 270 for Deer stalking but I have often wondered about the viability of using the lever action for Roe Deer out to say 100 yards. Has anybody on the site got one (in 44 mag) on their ticket for deer I wonder?

many thanks.
 
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I'm considering getting myself an under lever,
just can't decide which cal to go for.

It will be used for lowland woodland stalking, mainly roe, upto 100yards

The things I want to consider are,
cost of ammo, tho could home load
weight
noise
recoil
I would just get a 30/30 but worried it might not be up to the job if I bump into a red,
and I might go to Europe at some point and so not sure how good it would be on boar either.

regards
pete


I own both in Winchester lever platforms. .30-30 with leverrevolution ammunition is easily a 300 yard gun. It is very mild kicking and quite commonly used for boar in North America. I've taken moose and black bear with my .30-30 so there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't be up to the task for your reds. I like 170gr silvertips, Barnes TSX and the aforementioned leverrevolution, though standard soft points work perfectly fine. With modern loadings the .30-30 is only 100-200fps slower than the .308 cartridge (with bullets of the same weight).

The .45-70 is a wonderful cartridge. I've used it on everything from antelope to moose. Always very little meat damage and very fast kills, especially on smaller deer. It requires a rudimentary understanding of bullet drop, but the again most cartridges require this.
 
I've got a marlin 1894 lever action in 44 magnum which I use mainly for fun, I've got a 243 and 270 for Deer stalking but I have often wondered about the viability of using the lever action for Roe Deer out to say 100 yards. Has anybody on the site got one (in 44 mag) on their ticket for deer I wonder?

many thanks.
I have a Winchester in .44 Magnum and a .357. Two of my friends have a Marlin .44 Magnum, a Rossi .45 Colt, and a Ruger .44 semiauto carbine. We have all taken deer and wild boar with them. I have killed large game with my .357, up to cow elk, with one shot ( 158-gr Remington FN). All the boar shot were after a chase by dogs, so wired up and angry, but the .44s killed them on the spot.
 
I've got a marlin 1894 lever action in 44 magnum which I use mainly for fun, I've got a 243 and 270 for Deer stalking but I have often wondered about the viability of using the lever action for Roe Deer out to say 100 yards. Has anybody on the site got one (in 44 mag) on their ticket for deer I wonder?

many thanks.

I did have a .44rm on ticket for deer a few years back but got rid off the rifle before I actually got around to using it on anything other than targets. A 200 grn bullet at around 2,000fps meets the legal requirements for deer in E&W but obtaining suitable expanding bullets for .44 since the pistol ban is a bit of a pain in the arse quite frankly.
 
I've got a marlin 1894 lever action in 44 magnum which I use mainly for fun, I've got a 243 and 270 for Deer stalking but I have often wondered about the viability of using the lever action for Roe Deer out to say 100 yards. Has anybody on the site got one (in 44 mag) on their ticket for deer I wonder?

many thanks.


Depends on barrel length and you would have to handload but you can get over 1700 ft-lbs with 44 Magnum. Only just mind.
If you want large deer legal with 44 Magnum recoil then go 444 Marlin and run reduced loads that are just over 44 magnum energy.

44 Magnum works well on CWD and Muntjac though without having to stoke it up so much
 
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Go to your local shop and look at the selection and price of components and see how well either can stay fed. Often the 150-170 grain Flat Point or Round nose thirty cal bullets can be found for bargain prices as they have lost favor with the high velocity crowd.

Agree with this. I've bought boxes of Hornady 170gr flat point .30 interlocks for less than half of what I'd usually pay for 'Brand X BT' bullets. Loaded them to circa 2500 fps in .308 Win using data for .307 Win and currently bowling boar over a treat in Portugal. They work very well, little recoil means you can retain the (moving) sight picture while cycling the action - can even see the bullet strike behind on fast motoring boar!
 
I have a Marlin 336t in. 30-30 it is a fantastic rifle I shoot 150 and 170grain flat points out to 100m as a tracking rifle. I have it for humane dispatch. It has performed admirably so far. The heavy slow moving bullet certainly does the trick.
Regards
Steve
 
Another vote for the 30-30 marlin, I really enjoy shooting mine and have a 2.5x scope which makes it even better to shoot at 100yards.

regards,
Gixer
 
I have no experience of the 30-30. I do have three J Marlin underlevers, one is the 45-70 1895 Cowboy. One of the earlier respondents said "buy the one that speaks to you". Well, this gun "spoke to me". Doesn't help when it comes to getting a variation though!

I haven't had a problem feeding mine: Starline brass from America, factory loads and expanding bullets (choice of) from my friendly RFD, cast bullets (hard cast or softer alloy if you want) from Shellhouse...

Recoil with the factory loads is gentle. Bare in mind these are 405gr bullets but loaded slow to stay safe in old Trapdoor actions. If you stoke up a 500gr home load it's going to kick a bit.

Either cartridge will do what you want: bullet placement trumps almost all else, within reason.

Are you going to try and find a JM or accept a "Remlin"?!

If you are fitting a scope, don't go for anything chunky: spoils the sweet handling and compact feel. There is a cheap scope rail for the 1895 (Weaver/Picatinny) which is only £12 and allows you to use the iron sights if you have QD bases.
 
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One word of caution if you're considering 45-70. The velocity window is quite narrow, so you have to be careful in choosing if you want to use premium bullets. Also if you're using traditional 45-70 cup'n'core you have to know which terminal velocity they're designed for. Especially if you consider using faster lighter bullets for better trajectory.

For example, 300gr Remington HP will expand down to subsonic velocities. You don't want to smash it to a deer shoulder at 2000fps! Also other bullets like Hornady Flextip, although rated for 2600fps muzzle velocity, would redefine term "carcass damage" should you use it to full velocity potential in 45-70... (I don't want to open the can of worms regarding terminal effects, just to save somebody being disappointed)

Year or two ago I did a little testing using Woodleigh bullets and 45-70 Guide Gun (18.5" barrel instead of usual 22"). The 405gr bullet wasn't usable since I couldn't get it fast enough to be inside manufacturer's suggested velocity at 100+ meters. The gun was also very snappy with hot loads, smashing your fingers with trigger guard etc. I also did my own penetration/expansion testing to verify that Woodleigh numbers were GTG (as they've always been).

The 300gr FN proved to be better choice, delight to shoot, easy to keep within recommended velocity. It would've been my choice even with longer 22" barrel.
 
Remember the .45-70 will struggle to meet 2450 fps if you want to use it in Scotland. I've not taken any deer with my .45-70 yet, I'm shooting 405gn hard cast at targets and I would describe the recoil as brisk! If you're willing to look at the browning blr there are all sorts of calibers you can get including the .358 win.
 
Hi,
Shootist, what loads are you using and which model rifle. I'm using 405,s with N133 in a 1895SBL, you are spot on, recoil is brisk.

Regards

Jim
 
Remember the .45-70 will struggle to meet 2450 fps if you want to use it in Scotland. I've not taken any deer with my .45-70 yet, I'm shooting 405gn hard cast at targets and I would describe the recoil as brisk! If you're willing to look at the browning blr there are all sorts of calibers you can get including the .358 win.

Think you would have to use a 250 grain bullet for Scotland that's what I plan to do, look at this load data http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/45-70Marlin1895Web.pdf

both should be ok for Scotland just not sure how much speed id get out of a 18.5"
 
I've got a marlin 1894 lever action in 44 magnum which I use mainly for fun, I've got a 243 and 270 for Deer stalking but I have often wondered about the viability of using the lever action for Roe Deer out to say 100 yards. Has anybody on the site got one (in 44 mag) on their ticket for deer I wonder?

many thanks.

Dorset used to sign it off on deer cant see why if it meats the requirements
 
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