Self loading rifles have no place in deer stalking.

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Quote from Pip on another thread.
I cannot believe that some on here are bemoaning the fact that self loading rifles have been banned. Apart from the battlefield, the only place an SLR has in shooting game is driven shooting and that is banned in the UK! In my opinion, SLRs and handguns attract the wrong sort of people to shooting. I'M HEADING TO MY BUNKER NOW.

To my mind its strange how people view a weapon because its not the normal bolt action type rifle.
I personaly would not have a self loading rifle only because it puts me of seeing the empty case fly out in front of my eyes. I do know several people here who use them. My nieghbour has the Sauer 303 in 300 win mag and a very nice bit of kit it is.
I do have a pump slug gun though.
Just because it reloads fast it do's not mean you have to load the weapon with more than 2-3 bullets.
Even with my Mauser M03 i can fire of bullets at an amazing rate and i have seen a chap shooting a Blaser reload at a speed that had to be seen to be believed.
Its the same rubbish i have seen and heard about single shot rifles (Animal welfare issuse etc)
Who said its illegall to shoot driven deer in the UK? Try it you might find its
fun.
Who are these wrong sorts of people self loadering rifles and pistols will attract to deer stalking?


www.prokennel.se

 
I dont know a H&K PSG1 would make a fine stalking rifle if you could put up with the weight. It will shoot sub inch no problem.

Dave
 
I noticed a small minority that would benefit, from them being allowed some sort of discretionary grant of a self loader, those due to injury or some similar condition.
 
I'm given to think that there is little real "need" for a self loading rifle. However there may be a small number of people who through disability and the like could shoot if they had an SLR but who currently can't shoot. So I think there my be a good argument for actual need for an SLR in some cases. Personally I don't want one, but that is no reason to stop someone else having one.

Where I live pistols are not, currently, banned and one of the clubs I shoot in has a big pistol section. Despite what I imagined, which was in keeping with the idea that pistols might attract the sort who keep "dangerous dogs" as a status symbol, I have not found this to be the case. I have found the pistol shooters to be very nice folks indeed and they come from a wide range of backgrounds and shoot for a wide range of reasons. To date I haven't met a single one that I might consider to verge on the type who would have the pistol as a status symbol. To be honest illegal pistols are so widely available in the UK that I imagine any "tough guy" who wants a pistol for show can get one without any need to mess about with the legal clubs and regulations. One chap who shoots at our club has a wife who suffers from altzimers and he gets someone to look after her for an hour or two every saturday morning while he comes down and shoots his little .22 pistol at some targets. It is his only escape from his caring duties in the week and he enjoys the little break and the chance to relax and focus on his targets and chat to other club members for a while. I defy anyone to make a good argument as to why we should take his pistol off him but I imagine the government are working on some made up "science" to give them a good reason to take it away.

As shooters we need to stick together and to defend the rights of all to shoot in the way they wish. This should not be based on an emotional argument but rather on hard science. Is there any evidence that legal pistol shooters here in Northern Ireland are any more dangerous than the average man in the street? When was the last time a legal pistol was used in a murder here? (I can't ever remember a case of a civilian held legal pistol being used in something illegal.)
 

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Originally Posted by pip
I cannot believe that some on here are bemoaning the fact that self loading rifles have been banned. Apart from the battlefield, the only place an SLR has in shooting game is driven shooting and that is banned in the UK! In my opinion, SLRs and handguns attract the wrong sort of people to shooting. I'M HEADING TO MY BUNKER NOW.



This is a stalking site, not a 'shooting' site: a fact which might just about excuse this remark, were not for that fact that SLRs are notoriously more easily handled by lighter-built persons and those with disabilities.

In Pip's defence, this view can only be based on an ignorance of shooting sports so complete that it disqualifies the holder from being taken seriously other than by those who share this lack of knowledge.
However, we must remember that such people are in the majority in the general population, and that is precisely this sort of attitude that makes the sequential banning of one shooting discipline after another so straightforward in this country.

We are indeed our own worst enemies.​
 
From the 1988 Firearms Act debate:

HL Deb 18 July 1988: "Clifford Owen has held a firearms certificate since 1937. He was wounded in the spine and wrist at Normandy. He shoots roe deer and red deer in this country and red deer and wild boar in Poland....He chose a Remington pump-action rifle. He spent much time and effort modifying it to meet his special needs. It has a capacity of four rounds only. It will be banned by the Bill".

So maybe you are right that self loading and pump action rifles (we, his friends, got him the Remington in 308 as the Heckler and Koch 270 or Browning BAR was too expensive) have no place in deer stalking.

And who really gives a sh1t whether Clifford Owen or those from today in Iraq and Afghanistan wounded in the service of their country have to give up their shooting.

As long as "I'm alright Jack" I suppose?

Or maybe they can jolly well buy a double rifle, eh, what, what?
 
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Oh dear ............................ despite what some might think there is always and always will be a certain element who perhaps should find alternative sport or pastime. Like the daft idiot who shot as the rustling in the bushes mentioned on these forums!

If someone wishes to hunt deer or other quarry with a SLR then providing normal safety is addressed, and that's the same no matter "what type of action the weapon is" it really makes no difference to me at all. I am not particularly enamoured with the SLR's I see but then again there are those B/A's that I also am not keen on so....................................?
 
Pip talks sense

I cannot believe that some on here are bemoaning the fact that self loading rifles have been banned. Apart from the battlefield, the only place an SLR has in shooting game is driven shooting and that is banned in the UK! In my opinion, SLRs and handguns attract the wrong sort of people to shooting. I'M HEADING TO MY BUNKER NOW.



Pip,

When not talking about bullets, you really post some sensible stuff.

You are spot on semi autos have no place in UK stalking.

It is called Stalking.

Getting close to ones quarry and taking a single well aimed shot.

Not blatting off numerous rounds until you manage to hit one.

Ask anyone who has both a semi and a bolt 22rimmy what there cartridge kill ratio is with each and I will bet you the bolt gun wins every time.

Pip I will join you in the bunker now!
 
Pip,
You are spot on semi autos have no place in UK stalking.

It is called Stalking.

Getting close to ones quarry and taking a single well aimed shot.

Not blatting off numerous rounds until you manage to hit one.

Setting the other useful properties of SLRs with respect to ease of handling aside: when I go stalking, I carriy a magazine rifle charged with five rounds. I operate the bolt immediately I have fired, but still seem to manage to avoid discharging the entire contents of my magazine at the beast in question.

As a former c/f pistol-shooter, I'm interested to know whether you share Pip's views on that now-extinct body of sportsmen.
 
While I wouldn't want to carry or use a semi-auto for deer stalking, they are excellent tools for wild boar. I handled a few last year in Croatia, a Heckler, a BAR, a Merkel and a Benelli. The Benelli was the dogz, handlled like a 20 bore auto. A semi in 9.3x62 has to be a great boar tool, you just can't shoot fast enough with a bolt gun in heavy cover.

I have also been to a few pistol clubs in N Ireland. The guys seem very safety conscious and steady. Pistols are holstered and empty except when on the firing point. You will not see a pistol out of the leather otherwise. The worst criticism I could make is that it can be a bit "red-neckish" at times, but a lot of us here could be accused of that too....:cool:
 
Pip,

When not talking about bullets, you really post some sensible stuff.

You are spot on semi autos have no place in UK stalking.

I think you are very much entitled to your opinion storm but do you not think that it might be better to take the position that semi autos have no place in YOUR UK stalking and leave others to make up their own minds as to what suits their personal sport? If you defend their right to use the rifle of their choice and they defend your right to hold your opinion, even if they don't agree with it, then it might be a lot easier to defend shooting against attacks from the outside. As it is there seem to be too many people in this country keen to tell us what we can think and what we can do because other modes of behaviour are unacceptable. What this usually means is that they just don't agree with any thought or action that doesn't align with their personal position.
 
Getting close to ones quarry and taking a single well aimed shot.

Not blatting off numerous rounds until you manage to hit one.


How would an SLR preclude you from your first statement?

How would a B/A prevent you from doing the latter?

There was a time when moderators were more even despised than SLRs yet now almost everybody think they are the best thing since sliced bread. Telescopic sights were likewise shunned by the reactionaries of the time for giving the sportsman an unfair advantage yet who would now countenance aiming for a humane kill with nothing more than a post and notch? That SLRs were banned doesn't make them, de facto, bad stalking tools. I treasure my PH with mod and 'scope and Barnes bullets, but oh how I still hanker for that Mini 14 Ranch Rifle I nearly had but then lost when the permission to acquire was removed from my ticket. Sad days. :cry:
 
I feel sorry for those that have entered the sport and never had the opportunity to use a semi-auto rifle.
Great fun! never shot deer with it, shot just about every inanimate object with it though.
I would love to stalk with a semi-auto rifle especially in a woodland environment where if a follow up shot was required,then that has to be the weapon of choice..(yes sometimes I do like to get up close and personal).

I agree with Caorach & CD entirely,it was the views of others that thought they had the right to enforce their views on the rest of us.

regards
griff
 
I belive that Robert Bucknell favoured an AR15 for foxing, as a quick follow up shoot is much easier.

I have never shot a full-bore semi auto, or a pistol (bar black powder and long barreled) as I was born in '93. I would love to try it though. From my reading on the subject the ban seemed to come about because not enoguh people voted against it (the governments' attitude didnt help either).

I think that the view of "well, because its not my sport I dont care" could be very dangerous to stalking, as its the smallest minority of any shooting sports (I think).



It reminds me of the poem by Martin Niemöller.

Sam
 
Pip,

You are spot on semi autos have no place in UK stalking.

It is called Stalking.

Getting close to ones quarry and taking a single well aimed shot.

Not blatting off numerous rounds until you manage to hit one.

What a totally uninformed load of tosh. Were you one of those who provided 'evidence' to the enquiry set up in the wake of the Hungerford shooting? Maybe you, like the BDS at the time, felt that you could dictate what type of firearm others could use?

Other than the obvious advantages that semiauto actions offer to the disabled, from a practical perspective it matters not one jot what type of action is employed - it is all down to individual choice.

I have (pre-Hungerford) owned a semiauto Ruger Mini 14 in .223 as a working fox/vermin rifle and very good it was to. Light and compact - IMO just about perfect for what it was used for. For stalking I have always used bolt actioned rifles but wouldn't for a minute want to limit those who choose something else.
 
how I still hanker for that Mini 14 Ranch Rifle I nearly had but then lost when the permission to acquire was removed from my ticket. Sad days. :cry:

If it cheers you up any Iwrch, I owned one briefly long before Hungerford but got rid of it for the same reason I traded in my 10/22 - accuracy. Great fun but neither could hold a candle to a half-decent bolt action. I used both SLR and SA80 during my time in the Army and, for accuracy and reliability, give me a bolt action every time. The only thing you don't get is a magazine of 20+ rounds. As for speed, cycling a bolt action is quick enough for me and you don't run such a risk of stoppages at a critical moment!

Although I accept that some might have good reason to want a semi-auto for stalking, I wouldn't even if given the option.

I'm off now to join Pip in his bunker where I'm sure we'll chat about the difference between the legality of shooting moving deer and why we tend not to because of the UK stalking ethos (yes I know it goes on, but another subject for another thread perhaps)
 
I have a stalking buddy who has a ten round box on one of his rifles, & has used more than half of it's capacity on deer on one outing, no misses & no runners.
 
...I owned one briefly long before Hungerford...

How well I remember that day and the look on everyone's face at the pistol club that evening when I opened the box contaning my spanking new, still greased up, fully accessorised Czecoslovakian AK47. Here smilies work really well. Imagine half a dozen faces peering at you - :eek::oops::cuckoo::scared::tiphat::doh:

Anyway, I got through the thousand rounds that came with it (£375 all in) over the space of a few visits to Sennybrrrridge (Fig. 11 at 200 yds with iron sights was fun) then sold it on to a collector who had it deactivated, all before the ban came into place.
 
How well I remember that day and the look on everyone's face at the pistol club that evening when I opened the box contaning my spanking new, still greased up, fully accessorised Czecoslovakian AK47. Here smilies work really well. Imagine half a dozen faces peering at you - :eek::oops::cuckoo::scared::tiphat::doh:

Anyway, I got through the thousand rounds that came with it (£375 all in) over the space of a few visits to Sennybrrrridge (Fig. 11 at 200 yds with iron sights was fun) then sold it on to a collector who had it deactivated, all before the ban came into place.
Arriving in the rain one dark evening at Griffs digs on Arran, we knocked on the door, it opened & Griff was greeted by the sight of an AK, complete with banana mag & bayonet:D, chuckling, Mike said he was going to do some serious stalking the following dawn!
 
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