muntie management

pete evans

Well-Known Member
inspired by the thread on head shooting a trophy i thought i would start one on management, miss management or just shooting in general.
i shoot a few bits of ground for muntjac and on the whole have a shoot on sight policy. i have shot muntjac for approx 5 years stalking on average 3 or 4 times a month so some expierience but by no means an expert.
It seems to me that other people feel that the shoot on sight policy is wrong and that a more measured approach gives a more effective population control strategy or damage limitation strategy etc.
The only muntjac specific book that i'm aware of basically proposes a shoot on sight policy. people who i know through stalking that shoot munties, as far as i'm aware, shoot on sight. what strategies and rationales do other people use in the management (through shooting) of munties

pete
 
There is only one real authority on Muntjac and who has 1st hand knowledge of them and that is Norma Chapman

Monks Wood is a good example of how a wood can be turned around.

Shoot on sight is the key and I defy anyone to be able to tell the differance between a a doe that is not pregnant and one that is heavily pregnant.
 
There is only one real authority on Muntjac and who has 1st hand knowledge of them and that is Norma Chapman

Monks Wood is a good example of how a wood can be turned around.

Shoot on sight is the key and I defy anyone to be able to tell the differance between a a doe that is not pregnant and one that is heavily pregnant.

Totally agree!!
 
There is only one real authority on Muntjac and who has 1st hand knowledge of them and that is Norma Chapman

Monks Wood is a good example of how a wood can be turned around.

Shoot on sight is the key and I defy anyone to be able to tell the differance between a a doe that is not pregnant and one that is heavily pregnant.

Storm -

Norma C., much respected in this household, does not have the monopoly of first hand knowedge. If you are interested in extending your library on muntjac, may I recommend Charles Smith-Jones, Managing An Alien Species?

Monks Wood was indeed turned around.

As someone who shoots between 30 and 50 muntjac in an average year - 90% of them does - I'd agree that it's a challenge at first to single out the heavily pregnant ones. However, one gets better at it as time goes by, and not at the expense of orphaned youngsters if one slows up and takes a good look first. I found that they don't shoot back and if I passed up a ringer for being culled, it would be there next time and I would be more discerning. That's not to claim that I've not made mistakes and lost sleep...
 
Charles wrote a very good book I got to read it before it when to print and had a signed copy hot off the press.

By his own admission and all the acknowledgements in the front Charles would be the first to point out he recieved a lot of help with his book and did not have that much 1st hand knowledge of managing Muntjac.

It was a well over due book and hopefully has gone a long way to stop Muntjac being considered as vermin.
 
As someone who shoots between 30 and 50 muntjac in an average year - 90% of them does - I'd agree that it's a challenge at first to single out the heavily pregnant ones. However, one gets better at it as time goes by, and not at the expense of orphaned youngsters if one slows up and takes a good look first. I found that they don't shoot back and if I passed up a ringer for being culled, it would be there next time and I would be more discerning. That's not to claim that I've not made mistakes and lost sleep...[/QUOTE]

Kevinf

is this ratio of m to f planned and if so what is your strategy? do you leave older bucks with a view to them staking territory and keeping other bucks out? do you keep bucks for clients? or is it just the ratios your seeing? I suspect my ratios are more 50/50
 
Shoot on sight is the key and I defy anyone to be able to tell the differance between a a doe that is not pregnant and one that is heavily pregnant.

okay
i am surprised a little by that comment but will play your game,;)
where do i sign up for the challenge
i presume your ground and i will need to shoot a few to proove if i am right or not:D
 
+ 1 on that

yes, i have this book also, good read. regarding the identification of pregnancy status of muntie i kind of agree with both arguments, sometimes it appears obvious sometimes very tricky to tell. i dont use the buttolo much these days for the munties as i have found that it tends to attract lactating does.

pete
 
We shoot around 300 a year and the ratio of buck/doe cull is around 60/40.

I think this is due to when a buck and doe are seen together the buck normally gets shot first.

Even with a shoot on sight cull plan the ground still produces medal class heads each year many of the older animals with the better heads have never been seen before.

I have shot very skinny does that have large 12"+ foetus and very fat looking does with no foetus.

The above coupled with the small size of a muntjac which means that for most of the year the height of cover provided by even a grass ride makes it impossible to reliably determine the pregnancy state of a Muntjac doe.
 
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Kevinf

is this ratio of m to f planned and if so what is your strategy? do you leave older bucks with a view to them staking territory and keeping other bucks out? do you keep bucks for clients? or is it just the ratios your seeing? I suspect my ratios are more 50/50[/QUOTE]

It's planned on ground where I am (as far as I am aware) for the last three years the only stalker. I wanted to see what the effects would be on the males and, in the three years, they do appear to be chasing off intruders. On two other estates I am involved in we leave bucks for paying clients. That's an interesting question nonetheless.

Storm - your numbers trump mine by a mighty margin and I salute you for your concern about the ethical treatment of muntjac.
 
Alien species? Shoot on sight!!!!

Muntjac, ruddy ducks, Canadas, sika, coypu, mink, rabbits, brown hares...
 
We shoot around 300 a year and the ratio of buck/doe cull is around 60/40.

I think this is due to when a buck and doe are seen together the buck normally gets shot first.

Even with a shoot on sight cull plan the ground still produces medal class heads each year many of the older animals with the better heads have never been seen before.

I have shot very skinny does that have large 12"+ foetus and very fat looking does with no foetus.

The above coupled with the small size of a muntjac which means that for most of the year the height of cover provided by even a grass ride makes it impossible to reliably determine the pregnancy state of a Muntjac doe.

We must be over the 300+ mark this year?
 
Hi All,

Interested in understanding where Monks Wood is and what were the issues? Too many Munties damaging habitat ecology?

regards Ian
 
Hi All,

Interested in understanding where Monks Wood is and what were the issues? Too many Munties damaging habitat ecology?

regards Ian

As I recall, previously a wonderful bluebell wood that was completely stripped bare by munties.
 
Ian,



Monks Wood is National Nature Reserve situated in Cambridgeshire. An ash-oak woodland has been present on the site for over 2,000 years. In the past, the wood was managed as coppice and some areas were clear-felled. It then became National Nature Reserve in 1953 as its high biodiversity in ground flora and insects was recognised as vital for local wildlife.

The reserve's plant life includes species typical of ancient woodlands, such as bluebell and wood anemone. Rarer plants found in the area include the greater butterfly orchid, violet helleborine and crested cow-wheat.
The woodland is also a breeding site for birds such as tawny owl, nightingale and woodcock.
Monks Wood is an important site for beetles with over 1,000 species being recorded in the area, many of them associated with decaying wood. The Wood is also known for its butterflies and is home to the rare black hairstreak.
The best time to visit the site is during the spring, for woodland wildflowers.

It is about 6 miles north of Huntingdon and one km to the east of the A1 (M) between junctions 14 and 15. The reserve is accessed via the B1090 (from the B1043). The nearest village is Woodwalton.
There is car parking at a lay-by on the B1090, near the entrance to the reserve.
 
Ian,



Monks Wood is National Nature Reserve situated in Cambridgeshire. An ash-oak woodland has been present on the site for over 2,000 years. In the past, the wood was managed as coppice and some areas were clear-felled. It then became National Nature Reserve in 1953 as its high biodiversity in ground flora and insects was recognised as vital for local wildlife.

The reserve's plant life includes species typical of ancient woodlands, such as bluebell and wood anemone. Rarer plants found in the area include the greater butterfly orchid, violet helleborine and crested cow-wheat.
The woodland is also a breeding site for birds such as tawny owl, nightingale and woodcock.
Monks Wood is an important site for beetles with over 1,000 species being recorded in the area, many of them associated with decaying wood. The Wood is also known for its butterflies and is home to the rare black hairstreak.
The best time to visit the site is during the spring, for woodland wildflowers.

It is about 6 miles north of Huntingdon and one km to the east of the A1 (M) between junctions 14 and 15. The reserve is accessed via the B1090 (from the B1043). The nearest village is Woodwalton.
There is car parking at a lay-by on the B1090, near the entrance to the reserve.
hey Storm
you seem to know your stuff on this
do you work there??
 
There is only one real authority on Muntjac and who has 1st hand knowledge of them and that is Norma Chapman

Monks Wood is a good example of how a wood can be turned around.

Shoot on sight is the key and I defy anyone to be able to tell the differance between a a doe that is not pregnant and one that is heavily pregnant.

Absolutely.

I have been culling muntjac for the last 35 years. Some years the tally a has been in the 50's and 60's depending on habitat, densities, and the usage of the area. Unless you are only talking about a very small are or you can pour resources into the place by way of time and guns on the ground you don't manage muntjac you control them. As with all deer species effective management is pie in the sky until you can control the numbers.

I too defy anyone to be able to determine the reproductive state of a muntjac doe on the hoof with a 100% accuracy rate, those that claim they can are simply b*******ters.

Monks Wood is a prime example of what can be achieved by the adoption of a zero tolerance policy. I am aware of another semi ancient woodland and prime bluebell and wood anemone habitat has yet to achieve the same level of success and return to it former glory as Monks Wood despite some major resource input. Why? Because for political reasons a zero tolerance policy has not been adopted.
 
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I too defy anyone to be able to determine the reproductive state of a muntjac doe on the hoof with a 100% accuracy rate, those that claim they can are simply b*******ters.

I shot what I thought was a pregnant doe a couple of nights ago but when I walked up to her she was quite milky. However, when I gralloched her she was indeed obviously pregnant. First for me.
 
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