How long until the bubble bursts in the UK?

gixer1

Well-Known Member
Recently, I find myself getting into more and more debates on social media about the whole field sports topic, and it really does become tiresome, with recent media frenzy surrounding Rebecca Francis, and with Ricky Gervais jumping on the bandwagon it seams like more and more people are saying downright awful things about people based soley on the fact they partake in field sports.

It it saddens me to see people proclaiming how glad they were to see the professional hunter killed by a bull elephant recently and also a full on attack on a female hunter which calls her a c*nt in the first sentence.

i know many of these people are ignorant to the facts but I have had a few mailings now just based on numbers during debates, which usually end with someone turning hateful as try have little factual information on the subject.

i seem to constantly make the point that unless you are a vegan, you are being a hypocrite to say a wildebeest is anymore sacred than an Aberdeen Angus bull, it's the shear number of people who are unwilling to listen to information that concerns me and on this basis I wonder how long until the bubble bursts and shooting is so restrictive it isn't worth doing.

we already hear of people getting attacked over it and thier cars vandalised or thier businesses targeted in the UK, having moved to the U.S. recently it was a refreshing change to see pro-hunt messages but even over here there seems to be a massive wave of anti hunt campaigns and hatred towards anyone who hunts.

so how long before we shut it down for the hobby hunter in the UK? 20 years? 50? 100?

Sad ad times and it can be difficult to be a minority, it's all fine and well defending your position and having a go back but the overwhelming number means that eventually we are more likely to lose, which is a shame.

i had a look online to try to find a population figure estimate for foxes in the UK and was amazed that the first 5 results in Google were proclaiming how fox numbers are at a low and how we need to do everything to stop the persecution of these "beautiful, kind animals that only kill when absolutely necessary" do these people actually do any actual research?

rant over... :(

regards,
Gixer
 
There is an old southern saying.

Never try to teach a pig to sing! It only wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

that is my belief with the "anti" crowd. You will not convert them, you will waste your time, and in the end you will give them a platform to make themselves look good in front of their idiot peers.
 
the sheer brain washing in schools by the anti,s is unreal theyve got their act together ,we havent by a long way.new years day was <beef.NOT ,the grandkids loved it ,cleared their plates but the daughter let slip it was venison. wow what a reaction ,i was satan grandad ,its the road to hell how could i ,blah blah .the two middle kids acted like id poisoned them with bambi and his mum:banghead:.copying the bilge their teacher told them .foxes are cute and help chickens cross the road and badgers are cuddly
 
I absolutely exhausted myself over the WH Smiths ban on Shooting mags being sold to minors a few years ago.

There is a Vegan Elite that sits behind this social media from Animal Aid and such that is as passionate as we are that the animals must be saved and that you and I can die as far as they are concerned..

You can work on the fence sitters but you won't budge the vegans. Even the vegetarians think they are "out there"
 
I find that social media is much to blame. It gives a platform where every nutcase can make his or her opinion heard by the masses in relative anonymity, and those who are most extreme in their views invariably shout the loudest. There is no point in arguing with most of them, it's the same old story; belief and passion in a 'good cause' always trump facts and reason, and the harder you try the further they bury their heads in the sand. Still, if you can talk to people in person, one can expect some success. I think that to the average bloke on the street seeing that we are not all bloodthirsty monsters is far more important than reasoned arguments. Especially if you point how much more you have in common with him than the vegan eco-terrorist types who are always so quick to condemn us. There is a worrying disconnect between the populace and fieldsports and the countryside in general though, something that was really brought home when I talk to people at uni about these things.
 
I am quite reserved about the fact that I enjoy fieldsports, but I do find that most of the colleagues and acquaintances I mention it to at worst have no opinion. They wouldn't necessarily be "pro hunting" but they certainly aren't anti. Some have been surprisingly interested and asked me all about it. Some didn't realise that deer stalking was a real thing that people do.
Obviously I haven't told those people who I know would definitely get offended, but that's very few people really. I think (and hope) that it's a case of the people with the strongest opinions making the most noise. All we as sportsmen need to do is keep educating others and show that actually shooters are perfectly normal people and shooting is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
The most frequent thing people now say to me at work about shooting is "Please can I have some more venison when you have some?" after I've given it away to try.
 
There are aspects of hunting that I do not agree with
Now I am not going to outwardly criticise them as it contributes to the chipping away at a general activity that the antis are also doing

I must say though the people that attract the flak are the ones that post pictures of themselves next to animals that are already much loved cartoon characters or subject of David Attenborough documentaries.
Am all for promoting "our sport" but long range target practice and shooting giraffe in a park is not the way to foster public opinion.

to be honest why try?
people will either be on board and comfortable with it or not.
very few people change their mind when they are so vehemently against something

its the open minded, couldn't really care, "oo this tastes good" crowd that we have more chance with

strength in numbers and the sooner the various sporting organisations combine under one umbrella them better
 
Actually, I think opinion has been swinging more towards accepting field sports than away from it in the last couple of years, and in general that more and more people are coming to realise just how unsound the extreme views -on whatever subject- expressed on social media are.

If we are going to talk about a bubble bursting, then its seems to me more likely that that bubble is the shaky public reputations of those organisations that feather their own nests, persecute/prosecute people, and promote hate crimes in the name of protecting wildlife.

The SGA's recent initiative challenging those who seek to protect the blue hare with an "I'll show you ours if you show me yours" gambit, and the unique body of sound scientific evidence established over decades by the GWCT, also speak of a robust position based on verifiable evidence (exactly the line that needs to be held on lead).

On a more trivial, but also more universal note, I've also been struck by how recent fashions in interior design have favoured hunting, shooting and fishing motifs, and how many of these products (fabrics, cushions, wall and table ornaments, etc.), which were previously available only from retailers specialising in the HSF sectors, have appeared in more mainstream, non-specialist outlets.

Getting back to social media, I think a degree of "hate fatigue" is beginning to set it. Experience on forums suggests that people tire of aggressive trolling pretty quickly, and after a few bouts of vitriolic sparring most opt for a quieter life, going elsewhere or discussing matters in a more measured way. Some never learn, of course! In any case, how many people really want to spend their leisure time having their ears bent by ranting fanatics, let alone adopt their views?
 
In general I find the "radical anti" attitude is much more prevalent here in the UK.

I work for a large global company and many of my colleagues are aware of my interests. Those from Germany, France, Scandinavia, the US, Russia and Africa frequently ask me if I've been hunting and fishing recently and are genuinely interested, even if they don't take part in fieldsports themselves. Here in the UK things tend to be much more surreptitious for fear of offending those of a more sensitive disposition, though I've had several requests for the "end product" of my pastimes. I see that as a direct result of the rise of the "celebrity chef" on TV.

In general, though, I'd agree with Simon. Most people are ambivalent about it, and many aren't even aware how common deer are in the South of England unless they've had deer in their garden or allotment. What they know about deer they tend to have read in the papers or seen about on TV, in particular that the deer population is expanding and most "experts" agree they need to be controlled, even whilst at the same time we are protecting every badger and seal as though they were bordering on extinction :rolleyes:

I have given several talks now on deer to different groups of people. These talks focus on deer as a species, their history, their place in our culture and some of their characteristics (sense of smell, vision, antler regeneration, etc). I don't talk in detail about stalking and rifles, etc. as these subjects are normally only of interest to the stalking tyros. I do, though, talk about how deer numbers have to be controlled. Inevitably someone in the audience will ask about how we shoot deer (what caliber rifle and so on) but, having seen the maps showing the expansion of the deer population in the last 20 years, I've rarely been asked why we shoot deer. What I've found in general is that people are genuinely interested in deer but know very little about them, so anything we can do on factual education about wildlife (rather than the Disney-fication of wildlife that "popular" TV shows seem to enjoy, giving animals names, talking about them in human terms, etc) can pay dividends.
 
I blame the decline of organised religion. Many people seem to have an innate need to align behind 'beliefs' of one sort or another, especially if it allows them to be on a 'side' they can feel self-righteous about belonging to. Whatever will happen will happen, but my way of negotiating it all is to start with the "I'm an omnivore who likes to take responsibility not only for how my food is sourced but how it fits into the greater scheme of true management of our natural world's resources, which is a management duty we cannot really avoid as really everywhere is subject to management and management decisions of one sort or another, whether we individually participate actively or not. To think otherwise is not realistic. If there happens to be some atavistic pleasure in actively taking such responsibility and engaging with the management process, so much the better" "We are as God made us". p.s. I'm an agnostic :D
 
"I'm an omnivore who likes to take responsibility not only for how my food is sourced but how it fits into the greater scheme of true management of our natural world's resources, which is a management duty we cannot really avoid as really everywhere is subject to management and management decisions of one sort or another, whether we individually participate actively or not. To think otherwise is not realistic. If there happens to be some atavistic pleasure in actively taking such responsibility and engaging with the management process, so much the better"

They'd win the argument because I'd turn red in the face and keel over before getting that lot out in one go! :D

Can't see there's any need to debate with the 'other' side when they spew out this kind of thing themselves anyway: http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/about.asp
 
All my leisure time life has been spent in the field sports arena a great part of it professionally and Megsjockey raises a good point. When this was a Christian country rural life involved everyone in farming and fieldsports. The advent of the antis in the early 60's was a shock to us all and yes I did get involved in the odd fracas with them. Our vicar would not marry anyone after 10am on a Saturday as hounds met at 11, I know of similar in more than one parish and only two years ago I saw a local priest "Bless" hounds in early November.
The strong community spirit within farming, religion and village life which existed a few decades ago has gone taking with it support for our sport and bringing people into village life who haven't a clue about the countryside. Unfortunately we are in an invidious situation and most kids don't even realize meat comes from animals . My daughter in law would never eat "Bambi" but having been conned into thinking it was tender beef she was told the truth. Her reaction was "Now go get his mother" a good convert.
When keepering on the Cotswolds and talking to my dentist, he informed me that there were only 500 badgers left in Gloucestershire so I simply replied "Come out with me and I'll introduce you to them all and their relatives". He did and having looked at 22 badger earths on the estate his opinion changed dramatically and he looked to me for advice on nature after that.
You can convert some people to logical thinking but most will never change. We as hunter/gatherers whether for sport or food are in the minority even in rural areas, it can become depressing but at my time of life I hope it lasts a little longer. I will keep trying to convert the "Ungodly" in more ways than one.
As Megsjockey says "We are as God made us" my p.s. Yes for my sins I am now a Christian
 
o to be living in a country, where on the main radio news channel today, the main presenter asks the weather man," what's next week like, I,m off to fiord land hunting and fishing"
 
My girl friend is a veggie has been since we met, before she met me she was 100% against hunting and killing animals of any sort.

Now she is still a veggie but understands that wild animals must be kept in balance and since we have done so much damaged to the ecosystem it is our responsibility to try an hold this balance. To her this covers shooting most vermin and wild deer, she has seen the difference we are making in the area around the farm by lowering the population on foxes and crows. I now know the argument that changed her mind to this, I was speaking to my father over a coffee the the tea room and we were talking about it being nice to see some rabbits or hares about and that we would both leave them be for a couple of years to establish them-self and also the number of rare birds we have around us that were not there 5-6 years ago.

she still dislikes large scale bird shooting but as long as it is being eaten, its fairer that buying it from Tesco.

You are never going to change the masses but we can change the world, one mind at a time.

to quote Cootmeurer,

I can't make a pig sing, but give me a bucket and some maize and the can squeal on que.


Andy7mm
 
Sadly, no one understands others points of view anymore - we are a confrontational nation these days utilising mainly social media to vent aggressive and vile behaviour and views which we would never contemplate face to face. There is too much disinformation which has, over time, created a rift that will be nigh on impossible to bridge with some - it does not help when celebrities weigh in as well - many people hang on these people's opinions and words as they have little or no direction themselves - they are the baby's bottle to the general consensus and it is a worrying shift of itellectual power many give up.

I don't particularly share others love of photographing themselves with downed big game, but then that's not to say that I frown upon it. It is particularly difficult to explain ones love of shooting to many people - I am positive that it can be more difficult to do so depending on where you live and the herd culture of your surroundings. Where I live now is a total contrast to where I grew up in rural Herefordshire - I don't tell people what I do unless I certainly pick up that vibe from them, that's just how it is - I have in the past tangibly noticed the change in people's manner toward me once they know I'm into shooting (whether it be stalking, rabbiting or even target).

I prefer to to keep me head down and go about what I do with likeminded people these days - Id also wager that a vegan wouldn't last 5 minutes come the zombie apocalypse!
 
Social media is a funny one - it's very difficult to get a representative view of what the population as a whole actually thinks. Your perception will be skewed by the individuals you are friends with / follow and by the issues you choose to look at. As others have said, 'vociferous minorities' can be disproportionately represented on social media as well. Its easy for some of the anti-fieldsports brigade to harness the keyboard warrior phenomenon and incite people to say quite extreme things from behind the safety of a keyboard.

I'm actually quite optimistic about the future of fieldsports in the UK. Ten years after the ban, hunting with hounds continues strongly (there are circa 300 registered hunts in the UK). Stalking (as most on this forum will testify) is booming and attracts new devotees in ever increasing numbers. Game and rough shooting are also flourishing. Like others who have posted above, I make absolutely no secret of what I do in my leisure time and the vast majority of people respond positively or at worst with indifference. I could dispose of three times the amount of venison I shoot with no difficulty at all...

But

The fieldsports community as a whole must get far better at putting forward the case for what we do, whether that's to friends, colleagues, neighbours, civil servants, politicians and other decision makers. The opponents of fieldsports are well funded, determined and vociferous. They aren't going to go away. Luckily for us, many of their arguments are spurious drivel. Everybody who wants to see a future for fieldsports in the UK should get off their arse and do something positive to support the future of their sport. Joining one of the representative organisations is a start but it's not enough. There's an election on the 7th of May (some may have noticed...:rolleyes:). How many members of this and other shooting forums have lobbied the candidates in their constituency to put forward their views on fieldsports? Or even got involved locally to try and secure the election of a candidate with favourable views?

I humbly submit that if one hundredth of the energy spent arguing the toss on forums like this or in pursuing our hobbies was devoted to working for our future, then the future of fieldsports in the UK would be secure. Ask yourself this "After the election, will I be able to honestly say I did everything in my power to ensure that future generations can enjoy the sport and lifestyle that I value?". If the answer is no, then do something...
 
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They'd win the argument because I'd turn red in the face and keel over before getting that lot out in one go! :D

Can't see there's any need to debate with the 'other' side when they spew out this kind of thing themselves anyway: http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/about.asp

Abridged version. "It will happen anyway because it needs to and I participate in it because it pleases me." That's not really an argument though, more of a negotiating position. OK? :D

p.s. Why Sea Kittens? Kittens grow into cats and a more vicious and cruel killer than a cat I cannot imagine.
 
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It is particularly difficult to explain ones love of shooting to many people

I agree there... My wife fully supports my hobby, in particular from the point of view that I supply the main ingredients to her much loves and legendary (within our family and friends) pies! lol.. My mum has been a veggie all her life and even she supports me and even advocates to others the reasons why it is good and necessary, particularly when compared with intensive farming and the slaughterhouse system... she can see that ours is, in the main, a much more humane and eco friendly method of harvesting meat!

I did however find myself struggling a little with the thought process last week when I returned empty handed. I had bumped a doe whilst out and we spent a good 20 seconds (felt like a lifetime) sizing each other up.... at 15 yards! before the (I presume) buck she was with barked and she took flight... She was beautiful and it was a truly glorious moment... one of life's best.. if she had come to me and let me hand feed her I would have but in the back of my mind I knew full well that if it had been 3 weeks earlier I wouldn't have hesitated to shoot her!!!

Now that mixture of emotions and thought processes is difficult to explain to one's self, let alone a layperson or anti!
 
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