Deer

Sivell

Well-Known Member
A quick question I would like others input in. As I understand it park deer are not classed as wild deer. So how do the BDS run the portfolio gathering scheme for DSC L2 with all three culls done in a park, when the criteria for a candidates L2 is wild deer. So my question is are park deer classed as wild deer.
 
Sivell,
Yes, they are classed as wild deer. The Deer Act applies. I recently attended the BDS Deer Management LANTRA award course at Andover and asked this very question. Hope this helps.
 
A quick question I would like others input in. As I understand it park deer are not classed as wild deer. So how do the BDS run the portfolio gathering scheme for DSC L2 with all three culls done in a park, when the criteria for a candidates L2 is wild deer. So my question is are park deer classed as wild deer.

A couple more questions if I may, to add to further discussion on this topic. If I were to enclose several thousand acres of land within a deer proof fence would the deer within still be wild? How small would the enclosure have to be, or what level of "artificiality" would have to occur before the deer lost their "wildness"?

Sharkey
 
It entirely depends on whether you run a deer park or a deer farm. The two are completely different.
A deer park holding park animals are classified as wild deer and are therefore subject to the deer act.
On deer farm the deer are not classified as wild and therefore the deer act does not apply.
The difference is that a farm is being run for profit and a park is amenity.
 
It entirely depends on whether you run a deer park or a deer farm. The two are completely different.
A deer park holding park animals are classified as wild deer and are therefore subject to the deer act.
On deer farm the deer are not classified as wild and therefore the deer act does not apply.
The difference is that a farm is being run for profit and a park is amenity.

What is the difference between a deer park & farm.

Can I have a several thousand acre enclosure with small handling yards in a small corner & be called a "farm" or a small one hundred acre enclosure with no handling facilities & be called a park?

Sharkey
 
Sharkey, as you're in Aus there are probably very different rules & regs that govern this at your end of the world

Yes, & we do have some pretty daft laws. For the record I was born in Britain, was introduced to deer in Britain & still hold a passport & nationality (& some connection, respect & appreciation if it isn't obvious).

So, I play a wee bit with deer, & I guess I'm a bit of a deer tragic, & in this context that which I was attempting to do with respect to the thread & the OP, is to draw out when or if "wildness" ceases to exist in "park" deer.

Sharkey
 
Yes, & we do have some pretty daft laws. For the record I was born in Britain, was introduced to deer in Britain & still hold a passport & nationality (& some connection, respect & appreciation if it isn't obvious).

So, I play a wee bit with deer, & I guess I'm a bit of a deer tragic, & in this context that which I was attempting to do with respect to the thread & the OP, is to draw out when or if "wildness" ceases to exist in "park" deer.

Sharkey

Not much difference in daft laws across x,000 miles of land and sea then :)
 
It entirely depends on whether you run a deer park or a deer farm. The two are completely different.
A deer park holding park animals are classified as wild deer and are therefore subject to the deer act.
On deer farm the deer are not classified as wild and therefore the deer act does not apply.
The difference is that a farm is being run for profit and a park is amenity.

To add further to what Teyhan has said the status of farmed deer is no different from any other domestic livestock, particularly relevant to stalkers is if you see a visibly marked (ear tag etc.) escaped farmed deer in the wild you are not automatically entitled to kill it and keep the carcase, no matter whose land it is on. Your rights are limited to impounding the live animal and requiring the owner to collect it and pay for any damages done. If the owner fails to do so you may after 14 days sell the animal at a public auction/livestock market. (see Animals Act 1971)

atb Tim
 
To add further to what Teyhan has said the status of farmed deer is no different from any other domestic livestock, particularly relevant to stalkers is if you see a visibly marked (ear tag etc.) escaped farmed deer in the wild you are not automatically entitled to kill it and keep the carcase, no matter whose land it is on. Your rights are limited to impounding the live animal and requiring the owner to collect it and pay for any damages done. If the owner fails to do so you may after 14 days sell the animal at a public auction/livestock market. (see Animals Act 1971)

atb Tim

Are park deer ear tagged? If so how are they tagged without "deer farm" infrastructure?

Sharkey
 
Are park deer ear tagged? If so how are they tagged without "deer farm" infrastructure?

Sharkey

There is no legal requirement to tag park deer, in practice you probably wouldn't get that close without darting them anyway, with farmed deer (in common with sheep, cattle etc.) they must be tagged with the holding no. before leaving the premises under TB regulations.

atb Tim
 
One legal definition of farmed deer (and I say one because basically you keep looking for legal definitions until you find the one that suits you:rolleyes:) is that any enclosed deer kept for the purpose of business are farmed. To my mind that means all park deer are farmed. Do you know any park owners who give away the carcasses to a game dealer, who never spend any money on fencing and food and who would give you a trophy stag rather than accept £10,000 for it? Of course not because they are all running a business.

Sharkey is absolutely correct to raise the issue of huge "parks" that call themselves wild but can supply you with breeding stock through their handling system. Likewise the "farm" that has no handling system and shoots everything in the field. This is basically a "park" system but he can still choose to have a farmed game handling facility licence and supply all year round.
Sharkey obviously thinks along the same lines as me because when one particular meat hygiene inspector decided to make life difficult for me and said I had to choose between park or farm status I said I would have both. "No, you can't do that. It has to be one or the other." So I asked "Is it illegal to own a deer farm" Answer "no." "Is it illegal to own a deer park?" Answer. "no"
"So then how can it be illegal to own both?" That did not make him happy.

Basically deer law is in a mess, always has been, always will be while we have so many wealthy land/park owners in a position where they make sure no legislation is passed that might upset them. With regard to TB and other disease control and other animal welfare issues there can really only be two categories; completely unenclosed or enclosed. Their wildness or tameness doesn't come into it.
If you have enclosed them you have taken away their natural options on how to survive and from that point on you are totally responsible for their feeding and welfare whether you can step up to that challenge or not.
I have seen parks that look after their deer brilliantly and carry out all the procedures you might expect on a "good" farm. I have also seen "farms" that should never be allowed to stay in business. As with everything it all boils down to the individual in charge.

I am sure you will have gathered by now that I am having a little rant! but facts are facts.
 
Don't think it's a mess or too difficult to get your head round , not saying that our deer laws or any laws, necessarily make sense if you start digging at the detail, theres lots of grey areas and some properties don't fit neatly into one category or another. park deer are supposed to be free to exhibit natural behaviour,it's not that they cant be supplementary fed , or whether you catch calves in the first few days of life and tag with a coloured year tag or not , so within the confines of a fence, ( and lets face it all deer in Scotland are behind a fence of some sort somewhere, just the scale that differs) we have fenced them out of the bottom ground and all but the last remains of traditional wintering ground is planted. So within the confines of a boundary fence they are free to form there own social structures , choose where to feed and couch with minimum of human management they count as wild deer and must be culled in season. if you have the ability to catch up calves or hinds and tag them as you would cattle then the status changes from park/wild to farmed stock which then requires a different level of care and responsibility than park deer, on a par with other domestic livestock. There is absolutely no reason why you cant have wild deer outside a fence park deer inside a fence and as part of that calves, shed -off tagged and reared as farmed deer , which then could be live transported to abbatoir. Some of the most extensive estates in the country have deer catchers usually in some bottom haugh land, many were used in the 70's and 80's to catch and sell live deer.
 
Pitilieden

What do you mean when you say all deer are fenced in Scotland. I find that not to be true. Could you evaluate on this statement please.
 
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