Sizing Roe Buck Heads

hi has anyone got any tips for sizing medal roe buck heads prior to the shot

i think my man , you had better formaly introduce your self in the introduction page , like every body else then the other members including myself might be able to help you !

Lee
 
Charlie

Richard Prior, in his book Roe Deer: Management and Stalking, suggests the following:

Skull weight (uncut, less lower jaw): 455g, Possible medal level: Bronze

Skull weight (uncut, less lower jaw): 510g, Possible medal level: Silver

Skull weight (uncut, less lower jaw): 540g, Possible medal level: Gold

To measure the volume you have to suspend the head from a spring balance and measure the weight in grams.

If the skull has already been cut, the respective weights are; 365g, 420g and 450g

Hope this helps, and please post some pictures of the heads you're measuring.

willie_gunn
 
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Charlie

Richard Prior, in his book Roe Deer: Management and Stalking, suggests the following:

Skull weight (uncut, less lower jaw): 455g, Possible medal level: Bronze

Skull weight (uncut, less lower jaw): 510g, Possible medal level: Silver

Skull weight (uncut, less lower jaw): 540g, Possible medal level: Gold

To measure the volume you have to suspend the head from a spring balance and measure the weight in grams.

If the skull has already been cut, the respective weights are; 365g, 420g and 450g

Hope this helps, and please post some pictures of the heads you're measuring.

willie_gunn

Willie your figures are correct, but that is after the drying out period, I find that an uncut and newly cleaned head needs to be around 500 grams to make bronze, drying out will loose 10%+ sometimes considerably more, then 90 grams deducted for uncut head, there are exceptions of course as volume is more important than overall weight.

However I tend to use the 500 grams figure as to whether I would measure a head or not, unless there was something exceptional about the head.

As to Charlie 111 question about assessing a medal head prior to the shot, I couldn't young from old yes! good head from bad head yes! but medal status no sorry.
 
bogtrotter

You're quite right of course - apologies if there was any misunderstanding.

Although I did attend one the courses with Richard Prior and Dominic Griffith I'm no great judge of medal heads. For a rough and ready guide I tend to compare them to heads of known quantity, but I've only got roe and muntjac.

The only yardstick I tend to use on a roe buck before it's shot is to try to compare antler length to ear length. Everything looks bigger when in velvet, but once out anything more than double the ear length is likely to be a good buck - note, good, not necessarily medal. I've not found antler length to be infallible when it comes to judging age, however, body conformation (at least IMHO) being a better indicator.

willie_gunn
 
If the reason that you need to assess whether they have antlers that will score high enough to gain a medal is for commercial purposes then my only advice is to try and gear your pricing structure in such a way as to make this less important. There is nothing worse or more distasteful than having a whispered discussion about how much a buck is going to cost whilst the guest has the rifle up. I can tell you this from plenty of experience. Several times I have deliberately, but discretely, spoilt an opportunity in order to get out of this situation. If the guest does not want to shoot a medal buck then this should be made clear before the stalk begins. If he does want to shoot a medal buck then thats fine. JC
 
If the reason that you need to assess whether they have antlers that will score high enough to gain a medal is for commercial purposes then my only advice is to try and gear your pricing structure in such a way as to make this less important. There is nothing worse or more distasteful than having a whispered discussion about how much a buck is going to cost whilst the guest has the rifle up. I can tell you this from plenty of experience. Several times I have deliberately, but discretely, spoilt an opportunity in order to get out of this situation. If the guest does not want to shoot a medal buck then this should be made clear before the stalk begins. If he does want to shoot a medal buck then thats fine. JC

I would agree with that.
 
I would just like to say to start off with, i do not shoot alot of medal class deer.
I think it's incredibly hard to assess bucks ' on the hoof ' unless you can get a good close up look, and how many medal class bucks stand about and let you do that....!
I saw this buck in January his head was, i estimated fully grown at this point and as he ran off i saw him from the back and could see that he looked thick, but they always do in velvet but none the less a good buck.
I then saw him again clean a couple of weeks ago from 200m, he looked a nice mature looking six pointer, but thats as much as i could say, he had been fraying willows and had a lot of bark stuck in his head, and was with a yearling buck and doe, so body wise he looked big as well.I didn't shoot him as he was on the opposite side of sheep netting fence and didn't want to risk a richochet.
On the night i shot him it was just on last light and he was 150m at first i didn't think it was the same buck as his head didn't look that good but didn't believe he would have allowed a smaller clean buck in his territory,but as he was in the company again of the yearling buck and doe assumed it must have been him.
My point being i saw him three different times and assessed his head differently each time and at no time would i have said he was definately a medal.
Thankfully my first impressions of him in velvet were good as his head cleaned off weighed 660g after boiling and is now sitting at 570g after a week, a hopeful gold.

Moose
 
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Moose

If you want to add photos to the article then Alex has written a very good guide here: http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.u...et+post+photos

Basically, if the photos are already on your computer you can insert them directly into your article by clicking on the "insert image" icon (which is between the envelope icon and the movie image icon - the latter looks like a ladder to me!), or by clicking on the "manage attachments" icon (looks like a paper clip) which will let you have multiple images that the reader can open and scroll through.

Alternatively you can upload your images into the SD site gallery, accessible from the home page, or post them into one of the photo hosting website such as photobucket (www.photobucket.com). The latter is free, but you need to register to create an account. You can then upload all your stalking photos to this site and include them in your article by pasting in an IMG link.

Hope this makes sense

willie_gunn
 
If the reason that you need to assess whether they have antlers that will score high enough to gain a medal is for commercial purposes then my only advice is to try and gear your pricing structure in such a way as to make this less important.

JC

I absolutely agree with you. Where I stalk all bucks over five points/a certain length of antlers are priced the same regardless - this is designed primarily to stop clients specifically asking for 'medal heads'. It places too much pressure on the guide, the client and the deer (through potential over stalking) if someone is only after a medal head. I have seen stalking guides who charge 'per CIC point', which personally I find disasteful, not to mention downright extortionate!

willie_gunn
 
Hopefully this is the pic that should have went with the post

moose

That really is a cracking head. The pearling at the base of the antlers looks both tight and heavy. Do you happen to have a view from the front? Also, would you be willing to give a rough idea of the location (e.g. county) where he was shot? I find it fascinating to see how antler conformation changes across the country.

willie_gunn
 
Hi Willie

Thanks for the advice on the pics you've put the pressure on now asking to see another pic i will try and get one up, or put some in the members gallery, don't hold your breath.
As for the buck he was shot in Lanarkshire not normally noted for trophies, the area has been planted with willows for bio-fuel in the last four or five years and the roe population has benefitted and increased,they are also not shot much on the next estate, so he managed to get to a decent age, a guess would make him six or seven as there is not much pedicle left and he has slopeing heavy coronets and really fused bone sutures, forgot to add he weighed 52lbs clean head and legs on.

Moose
 
I would also like to point out that the weights quoted do not guarantee a medal as I found out last year . I shot a nice buck weighing 578 grams and thought I must have a Gold but unfortunately when measured came back as a Silver ..
 
Hi Willie

Thanks for the advice on the pics you've put the pressure on now asking to see another pic i will try and get one up, or put some in the members gallery, don't hold your breath.
As for the buck he was shot in Lanarkshire not normally noted for trophies, the area has been planted with willows for bio-fuel in the last four or five years and the roe population has benefitted and increased,they are also not shot much on the next estate, so he managed to get to a decent age, a guess would make him six or seven as there is not much pedicle left and he has slopeing heavy coronets and really fused bone sutures, forgot to add he weighed 52lbs clean head and legs on.

Moose

He is a good age the coronets have quite a slope on the outside edge, always a good indication of age, can't be sure from a photo, but would not expect to see that much droop on an animal under seven years of age, what was the condition of the teeth?
 
ive never had a head measured as i didnt think i had anything worth doing. i just weighed and measured the biggest head i have kept and it is 540g and 30cm from base to tip which would make it ok by the guide lines suggested but tbh it doesnt look that impressive. there must be a fair bit of subjectivity prerhaps?
 
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