New land and restrictions.

TeddyW86

Well-Known Member
As a few of you may be aware, i currently have a restriction on my fac whereby:

"whilst using my .22LR i have to be accompanied by an experienced rimfire shooter and current holder of an FAC"

"whilst using my .243 i have to be accompanied by an experienced fullbore rifle shooter and current holder of an FAC"

i am currently going about getting this lifted by having all of my shots accounted for in a log book and having various FAC holders in my area signing it off and saying how responsible i was etc.

i have however just been notified that a good friend of mine and a local hop farmer has told me that he has munties and lots of them, and he wants them controlled. i though, bloody brilliant, free stalking and what not, only to be reminded that i could not do it alone and that the land it is over i dont think has been passed by the police for relevant calibres. How do i go about getting permision (from the rozzers) to stalk on land that has not been cleared?
 
As i understand it if the person accompanying you has an open ticket all should be ok, he will deem the land suitable that is what was explained to me by my feo.
 
Another example of utter crap, (apologies to admin), but this really IS from fairyland...........who is the originator of this rubbish?, why would anyone who is compus mentis with firearms even recommend someone start their shooting career with a .22LR?.....WHY DO WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS ?
 
As far as i'm aware if you intend to take your rifle along to said land to use you will have to have that land cleared by the FLO if you were just going along with your mentor then you could use his rifle under his supervision if he has an open certificate,pretty sure thats how it works because i had the same problem when i started out.Can't understand why you should need to be accompanied with the .22lr though thats just daft.:eek:
Neil.
 
As i understand it if the person accompanying you has an open ticket all should be ok, he will deem the land suitable that is what was explained to me by my feo.

If, in addition to the 'Alice in Wonderland' accompanied conditions mentioned above, the OP has the 'standard' condition of "............... land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated...........", appearing anywhere on his FAC then it doesn't matter if the accompanying stalker has an open ticket or not, it means exactly what it says - he is restricted to shooting his own firearms on land that has been inspected or otherwise passed by the police in that area. If he does otherwise he is in contravention of the condition.

Cervus, you're in D&C area aren't you? Same as me - I've found the Firearms Dept at Middlemoor to be reasonably switched on but the level of knowledge at the local FEO level in my area was abysmal to say the least.
 
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Orion,
Yes i am Devon and Cornwall , and yes they seem ok in the office but i agree the knowledge of an ex retired copper(firearms officer) on firearms when he readily admits to knowing nothing about them seems somewhat bizzare but then i am fortunate to have grown up with guns in my family going back an age and have several thou acres to shoot/stalk on. Speaking to my feo on his recent visit to mine he told me that it is NOT just the paperwork that had to be in order, the person applying in his own words "seem like a decent sort" or he would not forward it to grant status without an appeal from the applicant which i suppose is ok but he went on to say that for a certain person close to one of my perms who does not always worry about boundaries or rather their is always an excuse to cross them, he has recommended that his renewal not be granted:) . Like anybody in life you can make things difficult for others or you can help them out i guess it is the same for FEO's (by the way what does that stand for ? FEO--FLO?)

I have helped out a friend to gain his firearm cert by taking him out to shoot deer on numerous occasions using my rifle whilst i accompanied him, he took the time out to learn "Best Practice guidelines" and some of firearms law to the extent that he tought me a few things. He now has his license but has the mentor thing which is ******** as D & C said they would take it off after a year stalking with me:-| Thing is that it did not matter wether he went out 30 times stalking or 2:doh: . Well at least they did not want level 1 before granting:rolleyes:.

Teddy , stick with it and it looks you are going about things in the right way be polite and get your farmer friend to write and say that he wants you to carry out the deer control as he trusts you that should go a long way towards any possible change.
 
cheers for the advice, finnbear is that aimed at me? and i didn't start my start my shooting career with a .22LR. i have been shooting with shotguns for the past 6 years and with firearms for the last 2. i just didn't get round to applying for my FAC until september time. now i have these damn restrictions that limit my shooting SUBSTANTIALLY and will soon send off my records and plenty of letters to have them lifted. so how do police come and cisit the land that you request to have cleared?
 
Teddy they may just come out and view the land pay the owner a visit or as my feo did had a chauffer driven guided tour with myself.It would pay to give them a ring and see if the land is on their data base as it may have possibly been cleared at sometime in the past you never know your luck,you'll need the address and post code of said land to check it out.
Neil.
 
Orion,
Yes i am Devon and Cornwall , and yes they seem ok in the office but i agree the knowledge of an ex retired copper(firearms officer) on firearms when he readily admits to knowing nothing about them seems somewhat bizzare but then i am fortunate to have grown up with guns in my family going back an age and have several thou acres to shoot/stalk on. Speaking to my feo on his recent visit to mine he told me that it is NOT just the paperwork that had to be in order, the person applying in his own words "seem like a decent sort" or he would not forward it to grant status without an appeal from the applicant which i suppose is ok but he went on to say that for a certain person close to one of my perms who does not always worry about boundaries or rather their is always an excuse to cross them, he has recommended that his renewal not be granted:) . Like anybody in life you can make things difficult for others or you can help them out i guess it is the same for FEO's (by the way what does that stand for ? FEO--FLO?)

I have helped out a friend to gain his firearm cert by taking him out to shoot deer on numerous occasions using my rifle whilst i accompanied him, he took the time out to learn "Best Practice guidelines" and some of firearms law to the extent that he tought me a few things. He now has his license but has the mentor thing which is ******** as D & C said they would take it off after a year stalking with me:-| Thing is that it did not matter wether he went out 30 times stalking or 2:doh: . Well at least they did not want level 1 before granting:rolleyes:.

Teddy , stick with it and it looks you are going about things in the right way be polite and get your farmer friend to write and say that he wants you to carry out the deer control as he trusts you that should go a long way towards any possible change.

Be careful of allowing anyone to use your rifle, even under your supervision its not legal, you can use the estate rifle
option, but for that to be legal you must be the land owner, or the occupier of the land or an employee of land owner or occupier.

The reason for the estate rifle option is so that those with no FAC can have an opportunity to shoot, the act states when using the estate rifle, must be within sight and sound of owner occupier or employee.
 
As an addition to what Bogtrotter said, you can also be holder of the sporting lease on the ground when the estate rifle caveat applies. This does have to be a formal lease agreement, just a gentlemans agreement will not do.

My friend Richard has just had his FAC granted and has to be mentored for his first 50 shots with his 6.5x55. West Mercia are prone to this if you have not done the DSC1. As for getting land passed, just ring your FEO and tell him where your land is. If it has been passed previously he may not need to come out. If not he will meet you there and walk round it with you.

ft
 
its a bit of a grey aria but i interprate "occupier of the land" as either the owner or a person with the shooting rights, and if you then borrow their rifle to shoot under there "supervision" i think you are allowed. ( because your allowd to borrow the "land owners" gun for youse on the "land owners " land
if your supervisor is on a open ticket he can get permision and you can shoot his gun on the land

if not i would just call up, get the land checked and then get it put on your cert and your "experienced fullbore mentors" cert if he isnt on an open ticket takes about ten days in staffordshire.
 
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Re: Estate Rifle facility, having just had reason to investigate this facility, here is the relevant section from the Home Office Guidance to the Police:

Borrowed rifles on private premises

6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a person to borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and to use it on those premises in the presence of either the occupier or their servant without holding a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle.

It should be noted that this gives slightly more flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than is permissible with the use of a shot gun as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the borrowed rifle can also be used in the presence of the servant of the occupier. However, the occupier and/or their servant must hold a firearm certificate in respect of the firearm being used, and the borrower, who must be accompanied by the certificate holder (whether it is the occupier or their servant), must comply with the conditions of the certificate. These may include a safekeeping requirement and, in some cases, territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the 1968 Act defines “premises” as including any land.

The effect of the provision is to allow a person visiting a private estate to borrow and use a rifle without a certificate.

The exemption does not extend to persons under the age of 17 or to other types of firearm. There is no notification required on the loan of a firearm under these circumstances. A borrowed rifle should not be specifically identified as such on a “keeper’s” or “landowner’s” firearm certificate.

The term “in the presence of” is not defined in law but is generally interpreted as being within sight and earshot.

willie_gunn
 
My friend Richard has just had his FAC granted and has to be mentored for his first 50 shots with his 6.5x55. West Mercia are prone to this if you have not done the DSC1.
ft

First 50 shots? This could mean 5 minutes on a range or 10 years of stalking! Some of the stuff these people come out with is priceless. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone trying to get into stalking these days. JC
 
Sorry to those guys who have restrictions on their FAC, but in this regard you have to be brutal with your Firearms Licensing Officer, the key is train them early!, If they place a condition on your FAC send it back and say NO, you didn't want that, please remove. If they won't remove it tell them it is unacceptable and that you should be refused a licenese in that case. Now this is where it gets interesting, see if they have the bottle to refuse you! 9 out of 10 times they give in and give you an open license, the one they don't, find a sympathetic Barrister and go to court, they have to have a good reason for a refusal, silly childish restrictions are not a good reason and the Firearms Act was never intended to be used in this way.

And just to engrain yourself with Firearms in your area a little more, apply for lots of variations and evry time they come with a query, ask them to add another 100 rounds on or another rifle.

I have a fully open FAC even for vermin on full bore and love to take out the .50 cal muzzle loader!
 
Sorry to those guys who have restrictions on their FAC, but in this regard you have to be brutal with your Firearms Licensing Officer, the key is train them early!, If they place a condition on your FAC send it back and say NO, you didn't want that, please remove. If they won't remove it tell them it is unacceptable and that you should be refused a licenese in that case. Now this is where it gets interesting, see if they have the bottle to refuse you! 9 out of 10 times they give in and give you an open license, the one they don't, find a sympathetic Barrister and go to court, they have to have a good reason for a refusal, silly childish restrictions are not a good reason and the Firearms Act was never intended to be used in this way.

And just to engrain yourself with Firearms in your area a little more, apply for lots of variations and evry time they come with a query, ask them to add another 100 rounds on or another rifle.

I have a fully open FAC even for vermin on full bore and love to take out the .50 cal muzzle loader!

Commendable.:D
 
Harry Mac,

I was taught by the Oracle of shooting, even though he works in a little store in Hull!
 
will get several people to write letters saying that i am safe and responsible and all that bo**ocks and then send off to have it restricted asap.
 
does anybody have any experiences wih FEO Andy Stinton of the kidderminster area when applying for modifications to ones ticket?
 
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