GWP x Lab advice

.Skinner.

Well-Known Member
Hi all :)

Just looking for some advice on the above crossbreed, please don't comment if it's going to be along the lines of 'why would you cross these dogs' or 'you'll get the worst of both worlds not the best' or any other negative opinion! Any advice or knowledge from anyone who has experienced or encountered these dogs would be very much appreciated :thumb:

1. Obviously it will depend on the individual genetics etc but in general terms how 'pointy' do these dogs tend to be? I don't necessarily want to make major use of the 'point', if I did I would get a straightforward pointer, but it would be interesting to know in this crossbreed how 'diluted' the pointing aspect of the GWP and the retrieving aspect of the lab is.

2. Again, probably varies a lot from dog to dog but does anyone have any experience with how much these dogs moult? I'm not fussy but my partner is!! Also, on that note are there general 'themes' amongst the common deer dogs (GWP, GSP, HWV, HSV, BMH, labs etc) in terms of propensity to moult?

3. Does anyone know of any examples of this crossbreed that I could meet, preferably not too far from Somerset?!

4. Where would be best to look for pups of this cross?

Sorry for so many questions, but hopefully there may be someone with a bit of knowledge on some of this stuff!

Many thanks all :)

Skinner
 
I have a bitch, the sire was GWP and the dam a black lab. She's 18 months old and to be completely honest is far more of a pet than a working dog, but my ethos has always been to try and get her training in place as far as possible with the rarity of actual shooting that I do.
In terms of temperament mine is just like a hyperactive Labrador. Quick to learn and eager to please, but she does have an "independent" streak which I think is usually just her intelligence showing. I'd say she's still very young for her 18 months. A lovely little affectionate dog, absolutely loves people and other dogs.
Mine will point on deer and tracks well on cleaves and minimal blood. I've no doubt she'd be better at this if I'd been been a little more consistent with her early training, but the natural ability is definitely there.
In aanswer to.your questions
1. As I said, mine points on deer when stalking or walking.in.the woods, and can frequently be seen sniffing the air and following her nose. I've never trained her to hunt in that manner though, so I don't know how she'd do as a true pointer. She retrieves with enthusiasm and is keen as mustard, will go out and hunt for a thrown or pre-placed dummy and never comes back without it.

2. Mine has a double coat and does moult a fair bit. Her coat has changed quite a lot since she was a pup, she's now like a direct halfway point between a lab and GWP in terms of coat length and type.

As for 3 and 4 I can't help you. Mine came from WrensMews on here, I don't know if they have any plans to have another cross litter.
I know others from the same litter went to members on here, and have met one belonging to Woodmaster who I know works her far more than I work mine, drop him a PM I'm sure he'll be happy to discuss.

If you want some insights on how not to train one, my blog is full of it!
 
Can't answer many of your questions, as I have not owned one personally, but they are a very popular cross with hill keepers here in Scotland filling dual purpose rolls everything from pointing ,picking up, deer dog, and vermin trackers.

Nature seems to be lab like with just a touch of the GWPs traits, big strong dogs lots of stamina that allows them to run day after day in a beating line on a grouse moor, something that many pure labs struggle with on a daily basis some of these dogs are on the moor five or six days a week during the season which takes a lot out of a dog.

One of the main attractions of these dogs here in the north is that a pure GWP looks odd to say the least with a long tail (docking is 100% illegal here) where as the crosses have the GWPs stamina but just look like broken coated labs usually with the hint of a beard.

Some have been breeding these crosses for several generations now and they seem to breed true to type, they even have a name for them believe they call them Pendle pointers.

I for one am a fan.
 
Its a very popular cross around here with grouse keepers, some come out very shaggy others look like labs with a goatee, body type seems to go from heavyset to athletic, I've seen siblings from the same litter that show little resemblance to each other so might be worth picking a pup later rather than sooner. It also seems hit and miss weather they will point as well, a friends just started pointing naturally when he turned three, all I've seen however have had very good noses and have all worked well (on grouse), they also seem work closer than pure pointers ie: they stop before the horizon
 
image.jpgimage.jpg

This is Bob, from a yellow lab dog and LW GWP bitch from Wales. An ideal all round dog. He points, retrieves anything from anywhere, even foxes. Get one, you won't regret it. Just google Lab x GWP and some will come up.

ps, he hasn't crunched the pigeon, he's very soft mouthed, but the feathers collect on his beard thru the course of the day.
 
Simplesimon - thank you for your advice, and I enjoyed reading your blog! I'll be giving Woodmaster a ring tonight to chat aswell

Bogtrotter and Akeld - thanks for the info, I heard they were very popular up North

Nemonnem - beautiful dog! I showed my girlfriend and she said 'that's the one!' so sounding promising if I do want to get one!

Thanks all for the help, anyone else have any info please do share :)

Cheers

Skinner
 
[/QUOTE]

I showed my girlfriend and she said 'that's the one!'


Skinner[/QUOTE]

You're on a winner then! :thumb:
Of course if you don't like a dog of whatever breed then everything else is irrelevant. I let the wife choose ours out of the litter as they were a little too young when we saw them to have much to go on. She picked the only one with a white tail tip.
 
ive had one for five years now lab dam and gwp sire ,i wanted a lab with more drive and i got what i wanted ( i said i wanted a lab with more b*lls and i got it)! he trained as easy as a lab but has a very good prey drive , he started pointing at about 10 months but no where near a strongly as a gwp ,he has been an absolute pleasure to own he is a bit firm with his hold but i think thats down to me ,he comes out stalking (his main purpose), wildfowling and also foxing ,he is black,smooth coated but thicker and a bit wirey and does not moult as bad as a lab but he does moult ! he came from a keeper who owned both dam and sire in north devon "it was an accidental mating" i also have a gwp now and they are a different kettle of fish :D training wise !!!! would i have another cross ? without hesitation !hes the avatar pic he is built like a stocky lab, but his sire was built like mike tyson "tapering from the neck down"
 
Simplesimon - yes true, and my girlfriend would do the same and pick one with a bit of white on!

Glyn - That's all really good to hear mate, cheers for the info! He looks like a lovely dog!

I would love to meet some examples of the cross, although I don't know of any particularly near here.... and also I guess I should start keeping my eye out for litters but don't know where is best to look?

Thanks again everyone for the advice and info, keep it coming if anyone has any more :)

Cheers!
 
I've always been wholly against crossing the GWP with a lab, but even I have to admit that the cross appears to be producing some damn good versatile dogs.
 
ive had labs crossed with allsorts over the years but never with a GWP. i have owned a full bred GWP for over 5 years now, and on a bad day truly wish he had some lab in him. LOL
 
I suspect I have the sister to simple Simons dog as I to got mine from the same place and I'll echo his words mine was bought for stalking firstly and foremost and at 18 months is still very young but has proved her worth as a stalking companion but she dosnt point as such and does moult as fair bit she has a fantastic nose and hunts like a cocker also she is the cleanest dog ive ever owned she will not make a mess in the house van or kennel
 
Interesting Swatty and Simon. I'm surprised you find your dogs still seeming very young in their behaviour. My bitch of the same litter has always been very ahead of her months. Out of interest how soon did you get them out on the ground and take them hunting?
Did you do any "made" tracks? Do you play alot with them from the early days?

I personally had mine "jet" out with me at 8 weeks old. she just walked slightly ahead on the lead taking in the smells, seeing deer, and generally learning to cope with all the excitement.
I started introducing her to an air rifle and rim fire straight away. Not making her sit while I shot but just let her mooch about and then let a shot off. She never bothered so I moved onto a shot gun and still no worries.

She has proven herself at tracking and has made some good finds. She will air sent while stalking and will point if she is either very near by smell or sight. She made some perfect points on woodcock at a real early age, standing paw up nose out tail straight within feet of them.

She is very biddable and has been fairly easy to train. Just getting a little head strong now, but that was to be expected. Only failure so far is she will chase hare or fox if they come to close to a seat. So I generally clip her while we wait. I hope to eventually have that sorted too.
Doesn't chase my cat, sheep or chickens as she got a good scalding as a pup for doing so. A very good temperament and I'm really pleased.
On the whole she is a good combination, having more stamina than a lab, softer than a gwp but with the hunting instinct still intact.
I have now just started playing retrieving games with her which she loves. This is her reward after a stalk if no animal shot. Otherwise she is very happy when a deer is shot to just carry a leg or get a little kidney etc.

Although I now feel I could train a pure GWP I still think the breed would be a little strong and sharp for my liking so may well have another heinz. Hopefully not for 14 or 15 years though. I'm looking forward to many happy years with Jet.
 
image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgAbbey has been with me almost all day everyday since I picked her up and was out stalking with me at five months as she is perfectly happy to curl up and sleep all day as long as I'm next to her just like yours she will track and wind etc and has certainly got me a few deer that I would of missed if not for her but personally if found her a nightmare to train on anything but deer but that could be down to me as I had her out picking up last season which she did well but without any direction etc just running wild basically so all summer ive been going back to basics which has been hard work as I'm sure she's been here before as even though she knows when she's done wrong it still dosnt compute and she instits on doing what she wants and being as soft as a brush I carnt give her a bolloking or I go back a step yet other days she's a1 beyond her years but as I said she's a stalking dog which she Sean's to excel at at the min I shot to stags and a tie buck yesterday and she sat behind me when I took the ***** and didn't mve a muscle although she's just a bit irate at follow ups 100 mile a hour overal she will be a great alrounder by the end of January when the pheasants have finished and she's had abit more experience but cockers are certainly easier to train
 
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View attachment 59748View attachment 59749View attachment 59750Abbey has been with me almost all day everyday since I picked her up and was out stalking with me at five months as she is perfectly happy to curl up and sleep all day as long as I'm next to her just like yours she will track and wind etc and has certainly got me a few deer that I would of missed if not for her but personally if found her a nightmare to train on anything but deer but that could be down to me as I had her out picking up last season which she did well but without any direction etc just running wild basically so all summer ive been going back to basics which has been hard work as I'm sure she's been here before as even though she knows when she's done wrong it still dosnt compute and she instits on doing what she wants and being as soft as a brush I carnt give her a bolloking or I go back a step yet other days she's a1 beyond her years but as I said she's a stalking dog which she Sean's to excel at at the min I shot to stags and a tie buck yesterday and she sat behind me when I took the ***** and didn't mve a muscle although she's just a bit irate at follow ups 100 mile a hour overal she will be a great alrounder by the end of January when the pheasants have finished and she's had abit more experience but cockers are certainly easier to train

Hope you didn't get any on her
 
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