Genetic purity and Sika deer in Great Britain

Buckaroo8

Well-Known Member
Sika now appear in many locations throughout Britain and Red/Sika hybrids have doubtless occurred in some areas where the two meet. Can anyone explain which Sika subspecies occur in the area they stalk and if they are hybridising with reds? What policy should be adopted when managing a population of these species together? and is it important/possible to preserve not only the genetic purity of Red deer but also the Sika?
 
Stag 1933 ( HH ) will have most if not all the answers your looking for on this subject

Bob
 
I was rather hoping to get an overview of the whole of GB from stalkers currently involved in managing these two species together.
 
Sika I stalk in Peebleshire are the Japanese type ( Nippon Nippon) The valley I stalk in there are two big blocks. The FC years ago had a big push to try and control the Sika numbers in the valley to prevent the migration west and Sika meeting up with Reds in Dumfriesshire. After three years of continual culling it made no difference, numbers were much the same. In the end the FC sold the blocks of woodland and the rest is history. Sika deer are here to stay in the Borders and what happens / happens not much man can do about that, as tried in the past.

It was noted at the last Borders Sika Deer management group meeting that it wasthe consensus of the FC head ranger and the rest of the group that it took 20 man hours to kill each sika and 8 for each roe in the Borders.


It was also noted at the last meeting that high genetic value of the Sika population was something that landowners may not have capitalised on in the past. I for one know that some Danish hunters coming to the Borders do so due to the genetic purity and size of the sika deer we have.
 
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If you have any way of gaining access to them, these papers should provide the current understanding at a genetic level:

Wyman et al 2014 "No preference in female sika deer for conspecific over heterospecific male sexual calls in a mate choice context" J. Zoology 293:92-99.

Perez-Espona et al. 2013 "The Impact of Past Introductions on an Iconic and Economically Important Species, the Red Deer of Scotland". Journal of Heredity 104:14-22.

Perez-Espona et al. 2011 "Assessing the impact of past wapiti introductions into Scottish Highland red deer populations using a Y chromosome marker". Mammalian biology 76:640-643.

Zachos et al 2011 "Phylogeography, population genetics and conservation of the European red deer Cervus elaphus". Mammal Review 41:138-150.

Wyman et al. 2011 "Variability of Female Responses to Conspecific vs. Heterospecific Male Mating Calls in Polygynous Deer: An Open Door to Hybridization?" PLOS 1 6:e23296.

Senn et al. 2010 "Variable extent of hybridization between invasive sika (Cervus nippon) and native red deer (C-elaphus) in a small geographical area". Molecular Ecology 18:862-876.

Senn at el. 2010 "Phenotypic correlates of hybridisation between red and sika deer (genus Cervus)". J. Anim. Ecology 79:414-425.

Senn et al 2010 "Investigating temporal changes in hybridization and introgression in a predominantly bimodal hybridizing population of invasive sika (Cervus nippon) and native red deer (C-elaphus) on the Kintyre Peninsula, Scotland". Molecular Ecology 19:910-924.

Perez-Espona et al 2010 "Red and sika deer in the British Isles, current management issues and management policy". Mammalian Biology 74:247-262.

If you can't get access, and really want to read some or all of them, drop me a PM with your email adderss and I'll send you the pdfs.
 
It was noted at the last Borders Sika Deer management group meeting that it wasthe consensus of the FC head ranger and the rest of the group that it took 20 man hours to kill each sika and 8 for each roe in the Borders.

That makes me feel so much better about my string of blanks of late!
 
At a very simple level aren't the Red Deer, the Sika and the American Elk or Wapati all basically the same species but have somewhat varied due to geography. The Sika are from Eastern Russia, whereas red are more European - wherabouts in Russia do reds stop and Sika begin, or does the Mongolian desert / Siberian stepp provide a big barrier.
 
At present I am hunting both species on one of the areas I have in Scotland. Having stalked and managed both species for many years I can honestly say that in all those years I have only seen and shot 2 first year cross hybrids.

I do not believe that every Red deer in Scotland is tainted with Sika, nature is not that stupid and in general it will be Sika stags mating with Red hinds that have wandered into new areas. I have watched Sika gradually spread along the entire areas I have stalked over the past 30 years. They are aggressive deer and the Roe population seems to have diminished greatly in many areas where they were once fairly common.

So far we have 13 stags for the 2 weeks stalking, but again it has been very warm and dry for this far north.
 
It's pretty simple to find out. Pull some hairs with the follicles still attached, put into a dry envelope & send off & wait for the DNA. I would have thought that the larger deer hunting orgs would be all over this already?

Sharkey
 
I do not believe that every Red deer in Scotland is tainted with Sika, nature is not that stupid and in general it will be Sika stags mating with Red hinds that have wandered into new areas. I have watched Sika gradually spread along the entire areas I have stalked over the past 30 years. They are aggressive deer and the Roe population seems to have diminished greatly in many areas where they were once fairly common.

The genetic data broadly backs this up: actual matings between red and sika are rare (for instance, the genetics seems to indicate just 5 actual events on Kintyre).

However, there is a fair bit of introgression, which is where genes from one species can spread through the other after a hybridisation event (ie. the hybrid calf grows up, mates with a red deer, and some of the sika genes it carried end up in its calves, and so on). There is evidence that this is fairly common in some areas - and it is very hard to detect from phenotype alone. But even then, it's not very common at the level of the whole country.
 
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It's pretty simple to find out. Pull some hairs with the follicles still attached, put into a dry envelope & send off & wait for the DNA. I would have thought that the larger deer hunting orgs would be all over this already?

Sharkey


Yes, they are, and quite a lot has been published on it.
 
At a very simple level aren't the Red Deer, the Sika and the American Elk or Wapati all basically the same species but have somewhat varied due to geography.

Not quite. There's enough genetic divergence to classify them as separate species, even though they can produce fertile hybrids.

The easiest way of thinking about it is as a species group in the relatively early stages of divergence. There has been enough restriction in gene flow to allow considerable local adaptation and genetic drift, leading to pronounced morphological and behavioural differences. If left to thier own devices, they would probably quite rapidly become 'true' species, incapable of producing hybrids. The fact that sika and reds mate at very low frequencies in the UK, despite considerable contact, indicates that there are already behavioural mechanisms leading to reproductive isolation. Genetic mechanisms would not be far off.

We like to think of species being clean and discrete, but that's actually quite rare: it's very common for there to be blurring around the edges, especially in the early stages of divergence.
 
Sika I stalk in Peebleshire are the Japanese type ( Nippon Nippon) The valley I stalk in there are two big blocks. The FC years ago had a big push to try and control the Sika numbers in the valley to prevent the migration west and Sika meeting up with Reds in Dumfriesshire. After three years of continual culling it made no difference, numbers were much the same. In the end the FC sold the blocks of woodland and the rest is history. Sika deer are here to stay in the Borders and what happens / happens not much man can do about that, as tried in the past.

It was noted at the last Borders Sika Deer management group meeting that it wasthe consensus of the FC head ranger and the rest of the group that it took 20 man hours to kill each sika and 8 for each roe in the Borders.


It was also noted at the last meeting that high genetic value of the Sika population was something that landowners may not have capitalised on in the past. I for one know that some Danish hunters coming to the Borders do so due to the genetic purity and size of the sika deer we have.

The Sika in the Borders originated from Dawyck estate in the Tweed valley and are generally pure Jap, intoduced late 1800's early 1900's and escaping from the park around WW2. I say they are generally pure because at one time a Black Kerama island stag(sub species) was brought in from Whipsnade. It was never truly known whether he served hinds in the park and died within a year. Having shot hundreds in the Borders area I quite often came across deer of total black colour, even in the summer time they retained that colour never changing to the spotted common type. The biggest stag I shot was 145 lbs (to the dealer) which tends to make them quite large animals. I have seen dead hybrids from as close as Wanlockhead and as far as the Glenkins so they have travelled quite well.
The Red and Sika in the Wicklow mountains in Ireland are now mainly a mish mash,with the Sika maintaining mainly their own genetic structure,but personally I doubt you would now find pure Red there. I have watched Sika stags serving red type hinds on the hill and indeed chasing off Red type stags over there and Reds I shot definately had the tell tale Sika indications.
Having said this,at the head of the Tweed I also shot one or two Sika that were red coloured not the usual dark animals but looked Sika and skull length confirmed that. I think that the Tweed valley area and Dorset are possibly the main areas for almost pure Jap's in Britain, but then,that is only my opinion and no doubt others will disagree.
 
As has been mentioned before, Sika genes in Red Deer is a mathematical certainty . Just as we are all related to Genghis Khan, one successful Red /Sika mating in say 1900 would by now have spread that taint through the whole of the Red population where meetings between groups is possible . That is to say isolated groups and island populations can be excluded. It would have nil effect on the phenotype (how the animal looks) as dilution would give a Red looking deer.

On the other point by the poster. Some original importations came from parks in Japan and other countries in the east where several races of Sika had been kept together for years leading to mixing of the subspecies. In some areas of the country ,I am sure, the divergence of size and colour could be in part attributed to a leaning one way or another ,to the dominant type originally imported.

David
 
The Sika in the Borders originated from Dawyck estate in the Tweed valley and are generally pure Jap, intoduced late 1800's early 1900's and escaping from the park around WW2. I say they are generally pure because at one time a Black Kerama island stag(sub species) was brought in from Whipsnade. It was never truly known whether he served hinds in the park and died within a year. Having shot hundreds in the Borders area I quite often came across deer of total black colour, even in the summer time they retained that colour never changing to the spotted common type. The biggest stag I shot was 145 lbs (to the dealer) which tends to make them quite large animals. I have seen dead hybrids from as close as Wanlockhead and as far as the Glenkins so they have travelled quite well.

Thanks for that, ive always wondered where those blackcoated sika came from, as you say black even in summer and the winter coat doesnt have the same grey flecking round the face.

Moose
 
As has been mentioned before, Sika genes in Red Deer is a mathematical certainty . Just as we are all related to Genghis Khan, one successful Red /Sika mating in say 1900 would by now have spread that taint through the whole of the Red population

Not quite - the analyses conducted to date show that introgression of Sika genes is ocurring, but is still quite restricted to specific populations. There are plenty of reds in Scotland with no sika genes in them.
 
This is a very interesting thread. The fourth horseman is correct in stating that there are no pure red deer in Wicklow. This is not the case for Sika, as hybridisation with reds was obviously only possible where there were existing red populations. Red populations, prior to Sika colonisation, were quite localised and it is these areas that hold the present hybrid populations. Lord Powerscourt, who introduced Sika to Ireland, had also previously stocked his estate with Scottish reds, so it seems likely that the red deer population was comparitively quite small in County Wicklow.

The core of the hybrid territory is in Wicklow National Park, particularly around Glendalough and the Glenealo valley. In other areas, such as around Luggala, the deer population seems to be pure Sika. I tried to post a link to an interesting study below and I have another one from 2014 that I couldn't attach, but if anyone is interested, pm me and I can email it.

http://www.academia.edu/377099/Genetic_structure_of_and_hybridisation_between_red_Cervus_elaphus_and_sika_Cervus_nippon_deer_in_Ireland&sa=U&ved=0CCUQFjAEahUKEwjih77NpdHIAhWBuBQKHQ_1B3E&sig2=rGPQueTua5b67BUFdJ2lbg&usg=AFQjCNHReUbE7Sco0uDtQkOI8DUgQAszEg
 
This is a very interesting thread. The fourth horseman is correct in stating that there are no pure red deer in Wicklow. This is not the case for Sika, as hybridisation with reds was obviously only possible where there were existing red populations. Red populations, prior to Sika colonisation, were quite localised and it is these areas that hold the present hybrid populations. Lord Powerscourt, who introduced Sika to Ireland, had also previously stocked his estate with Scottish reds, so it seems likely that the red deer population was comparitively quite small in County Wicklow.

The core of the hybrid territory is in Wicklow National Park, particularly around Glendalough and the Glenealo valley. In other areas, such as around Luggala, the deer population seems to be pure Sika.

I tend to disagree a little my friend so please forgive me. Glen Malure (Now Nat Park) next to Lugala had a great many hybrids and some weird looking "Red stags".
When Joe owned it I shot a number of hinds there one day and not one looked the same even though they were roughly Red hind size. I saw plenty of wee black stags holding and serving hybrid hinds and that was 20+ years ago.
 
My friend, I bow my head with shame at your superior knowledge of my native county. I shall retreat from the thread suitably chastened.

Oh...Glenmalure and Luggala are 25km apart. And it was the most recent 2014 study that highlighted the purity of the Sika in Luggala through genetic sampling
 
Not quite - the analyses conducted to date show that introgression of Sika genes is ocurring, but is still quite restricted to specific populations. There are plenty of reds in Scotland with no sika genes in them.

Yes I agree that various tests seem to have shown that many Red populations are free from Sika genes despite panicky predictions in the past. Surely that must mean that no breeding was being undertaken between these free populations and the rest? That in itself gives cause to wonder at as to why. Was it geographic or social or whatever? In the long gone past the great East/West seasonal movements of deer described in traditional history would have led to contact across many populations now isolated by human habitation roads and FENCES.
i do worry a little that our Red deer are becoming more and more isolated in smaller and smaller population groups which may lead to a narrowing of the gene pool over time with all that means.

David
 
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