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Thread: RSPB calls for radical changes to conservation in UK

  1. #1

    RSPB calls for radical changes to conservation in UK

    Last edited by Iwrch; 30-06-2010 at 10:04.
    /l\ Y gwir yn erbyn y byd /l\

  2. #2
    Interesting, a possible way of getting a finger in every pie and to be seen as a semi official body. Best way to achieve balance is to get one or all of the shooting organisations to represent our interests. It would probably cost extra in fees to service this but probably money well spent unless we wish to lie back and be shafted.

    Question is which organisation is best fitted to achieve this?

    Any thoughts?


  3. #3
    I would have thought the BASC would be admirably suited to deal with this as "CONSERVATION" is one of their ideals. Most decent farmer/landowners, who are interested in shooting, leave wild areas, the awkward corners of fields, spinnys etc. aside for consevation purposes. There are many grants available for so doing.

    I would love to see some of the huge car parks, from park and ride, around our major cities with more trees planted in them. Carbon caputure and shade, what more can you want. I think local councils should be encouraged in this. The world needs more trees.

    Iwrch, It has obviously piqued your interest, what do you see as the downside to this?

    Blindness to suffering is an inherent consequence of natural selection. Nature is neither kind nor cruel but fiercely indifferent.

  4. #4
    The RSPB has a policy of buying land to enhance its grip round the throat of the shooting fraternity.
    What we need is an organisation that will either bank roll the buying of land or buy land for its members.

    The solution would be simple,Buy the land retain the shooting rights and some management interests, then sell the land on.
    Sounds to good to be true doesn't it, it is an idea that is being toyed with at the moment.

    Here lies some of the major issues: there would need to be some sort management for each individual area.

    Who would fund it?

    Last time BASC put up its fees there was a mass exodus. So asking 127.000 members to stump up an extra 10 ,giving them 1.27 million Per annum to fund it is a non starter.

    This would have to be long term investment as trying to cater for 127.000 members is going to be difficult, but lets say over a 10 year period that has now turned into 12.7 million. How many shooting rights/fishing rights would that buy?
    would that be enough to satisfy 127.000 members or is it going to be a longer strategy.

    The other alternative is to form groups and go for funding from some of the shooting organisations.

    A radical alternative would be to increase subscriptions dramatically, those that want insurance only pay a minimum, those that want to invest in the future pay subscriptions on Direct Debit, (just to ease the pain), and we take the stick off the RSPB that they have been beating us with and return some of the injustices they have handed out..


  5. #5
    I would love to see some of the huge car parks, from park and ride, around our major cities with more trees planted in them. Carbon caputure and shade, what more can you want. I think local councils should be encouraged in this. The world needs more trees.

    Thats what I do for a living. We're currently aiming for 20%canopy cover on all new developments and moving developers towards trees that are large at maturity rather than ornamental token trees. It's amazing what trees (even relatively young ones) can do for the overall look, feel and wildlife value of an area.

    Some Councils are better than others at doing this but the pendulum is already swinging very firmly in this direction.

    As for the RSPB it appears that (once again) they are getting too big for their collective boots. I don't think any reasonable person would have a problem with the concept. However I'm sure many do have a problem with the idea of some of the sanctimonious tossers from the RSPB 'implementing' it as policy.

  6. #6
    I think that the comments with regard to the BASC taking a slightly larger sub in direct debits, monthly or quarterly, are constructive as it would certainly ease the pain and reduce the number leaving and would provide a fund to be used for conservation. The RSPB is also going to have to modify some of its more militant and anti-shooting policies so that a true partnership can be established.

    I do worry about the RSPB and its scaremongering. In the full article they talk about needing to bring the red kite back from the brink of extinction, there are currently approaching 2,000 pairs of red kites in the UK now so hardly on the brink of extinction!!

  7. #7
    Afternoon all,

    Firstly, in the 15 years I have been here the subs have gone up from anywhere between 2 a year to 10 a year, and there has never been a 'mass exodus' as Griff reports - perhaps this was before my time.

    Phased Direct Debit - yes schedules to come in from March 1st 2011

    Farms and shooting- good news see the new Campaign for the Farmed Environment - shoots and shooting are of great benefit and interest here - feature in the latest (May / June) issue of S&C by the way

    Land question - again a piece in the March / April issue of S&C with tips on how to get money / funding (WHT, grants, government subsidies and so on) and then how to generate money from the land to help repay loans etc. We have a department set up to help members which this also.

    All members, upon renewal, are asked for a 5 donation to the WHT a primary source for funding land purchase for shooting & conservation in the UK, I will not tell you how few members contribute, but now you all can can’t you? Its only 5 a year – or more if you feel you can afford it. OK it was set up mainly for wildfowling, but not exclusively.


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by flytie View Post
    Iwrch, It has obviously piqued your interest, what do you see as the downside to this?
    I'm not Iwrch but for what it is worth I'll tell you what the downside to this is, and it is a big downside. What this basically says is that the RSPB, and no doubt a bunch of other green nutter groups, want legal say over land even if they don't own it. I suspect they are looking blanket UK wide conservation areas where the owners will have to comply with a long list of laws drawn up, of course, in consultation with the RSPB and others with a very clearly stated agenda. Lead bullets might feature on this agenda, as one example of something we've discussed here recently, and I'm sure there are 1,000 other things they can do to make gamekeeping and even deer stalking more difficult. The RSPB have been buying up land in a manner designed to make shooting as difficult as possible but there is only so much land you can buy and there are only so many people willing to sell to the green nutters so this solves that problem, if they get this then they own the whole country.

    What if, say, all access to woodland with certain species of bird were to be banned unless the visitors were to be guided by some RSPB lackey? Jobs for the boys in green nutter fantasy land and, oh dearie me, deer stalking in those areas has just become impossible. A win win situation all round for the greens and their supporters would just love to hear tales from their guide of how the area used to be used for shooting but that is all stopped now.

    For everyone in the UK, except for a handful of the greens who probably stand to make a big pile of cash from this, this is the worst possible outcome and we must fight it every inch of the way.

  9. #9
    I'm going to be devils advocate here and say that it is all to easy to poo poo every thing the RSPB does and make them out to be idiots whilst hero worshiping everything that the shooting community does.

    In my experience this is not always the case. Every coin has two sides for example, homeowners with domestic cats are seen as wildlife villans but they very often spend large ammounts of money feeding garden birds? Shooting estates plant 'conservation crops' (these used to be called game crops before you could claim lots of money for them) but a proportion of keepers continue to persecute raptors, badgers and hedgehogs? Many landowners talk the conservation talk but then hold rock concerts and other major events in parkland all through May, June and July? You could go on thinking of converse examples all afternoon.

    Yes, a number of people within the RSPB staff and membership will be keen to knock shooting whenever possible and, of course, their investigations dept will be looking for bad practice, thats their job after all but, I don't think its fair to treat the whole organisation as the enemy.

    All I'm saying (before I get lynched!) is lets try and keep an open mind and see things from other peoples point of view sometimes.


  10. #10
    J.C 275,
    eloquently put, but untill they stop misrepresenting facts, propagating misinformation and they accept that raptors have a place but that place is not everywhere, then I will fight them tooth and claw every step of the way. I think it's about time the Charities Commision had a look at this organisation and its aspirations to quasi-legal bird police status.

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