forestry commission contracts

thanks for al the comments, but just to make a few points clear. Firstly i never said that the guy wasn't capable of doing the job.
Secondly, i have no interest in becoming a contractor, although i do know quite a few. Most of them are extremely good at it, working to a high standard and with lots of experience. I'm just asking the question as to whether they were given the opportunity to apply for this post in the fair and open manner we should expect from an orgnisation that puts itself forward as a leader in deer management. I may well go down the lines of an FOI in this case, if for no other reason than to ensure that we as tax payers are getting the best from our money. The last point i would like to make is that anyone out there who deals with contracts will know it's not always the best at the job who wins the contract but the one who can put together the best paperwork and give the answers the panel want to hear. Maybe therein lies an unfair advantage. if he is the best man for the job then good luck to him, i guesstime will tell.
 
Would u not ne better asking ur mates who are contractors if they got the chance to tender?
Did they even want the wood/contract? Some wods could be a nightmare with public access etc, plus a if a smaller job mibee not worth it for them. Not as easy as many think to make mone doing it, by tie u take of expences etc

Really don't see wot ur problem is? I really doubt our value for money with taxes will make much difference in the grand scheme of things, The FC waste far more money all the time, without gettin on to councils etc. D
Do u really think ur FOI request is the best use of tax payers money? U have stated the boy should be capable enough probably has an idea how to fill forms in, so why shouldn't he get the contract?
Or should all FC family members be banned from working for the FC??

The FC has been going that way for years with meaningless tickets and paper chasing, it will man some of the lder school controlers will find it hard to get contracts unless they move with the times, just the way things are going unfortunately.

But as someone said if under a certain value (think 20K) they just have to get 3 quotes.

Any other forestry company can hand contracts out willy nilly to who ever it chooses with no comeback, yet FC always gets a hard time wot ever it does.
 
What a load of tosh. Ronnie Rose cannot get a contract cos his dad was forest manager. Some skills are taught, some inherited but in the long run a bunch of amateurs are knocking a professional.
 
I was a forestry contractor for 15 years. I've tendered for hundreds of forestry commission contracts over that time and my experience is quite different. It doesn't matter who you are. If you know your job and are capable of filling in the tender then you'll be considered fairly. I've taken contracts from people who have had the work for decades because I filled in the paperwork correctly and they didn't. I won't change anyone's mind that it isn't a corrupt system but I can tell you that I used to think it was corrupt (and you wouldn't change my mind) but now believe wholeheartedly that it isn't. They might not always choose the best contractor but they always choose the best tender.
 
What a load of tosh. Ronnie Rose cannot get a contract cos his dad was forest manager. Some skills are taught, some inherited but in the long run a bunch of amateurs are knocking a professional.


Eh! Don't follow your comment on Ronald at all
 
Corruption is getting a brown paper bag full of cash or a family holiday in return for a lucrative contract no matter the suitability. Picking someone over another because you would prefer to work with them or trust them more is common sense.


That depends if you are picking someone following a prescribed process based on fixed criteria or just picking someone because you like them more
 
That depends if you are picking someone following a prescribed process based on fixed criteria or just picking someone because you like them more

Liking them more is part of the selection process surely, otherwise there would be no need for an interview. You'd just put the nearest 3 tenders in a hat and pull out a winner or maybe you think it should just go to the best price no questions asked??

Nobody is going to pick an arsehole to work with no matter if that is one of the "fixed criteria" or not and I should imagine the rest of the scoring will allow for this to be factored in.
 
Liking them more is part of the selection process surely, otherwise there would be no need for an interview. You'd just put the nearest 3 tenders in a hat and pull out a winner or maybe you think it should just go to the best price no questions asked??

Nobody is going to pick an arsehole to work with no matter if that is one of the "fixed criteria" or not and I should imagine the rest of the scoring will allow for this to be factored in.

In most situations pre qualifying criteria apply - qualifications and experience.
 
There

ever seen a senior manager, councillor or executive sacked?

Well, what about Graham Ingham (Lanarkshire), George Pottinger (Scottish Office), or T Dan Smith (Newcastle) ? Quite recently Charles Owenson and James Costello (Edinburgh Council) had their collars felt.
 
Underhand and Officially negotiated and tendered contracts go on everyday in life, If the Contract is personally to do with me then i would ask for FOI on said contract but if nothing to do with me then i would not give a hoot, who why etc etc gets the contracts, I worked for over 20 years in Public Dept with approx 170-180 staff directly managed by 14 group managers and they where managed by 3 middle managers and 1 Senior Manager, people were promoted on a pals basis year in year out, even though some were not clever enough to do the new job, The Middle Manager either moved sideways or upwards and the person was left in the new job floundering. The New Middle Manager comes along and they don't want to upset the old Manager so they are again left and this has a knock on affect for years to come. whether it is a crime in awarding promotion or not These things still go on. I had a family member that worked for a multi billion company and was one at the very top of the branches and he dealt with Council Contracts which where awarded to certain companies that were associated with other colleagues in his HQ because they were pals. People will see their pals ok and some others even risk their jobs in doing so BUT and it's a very BIG BUT, HOW OFTEN ARE THESE CONTRACTS CHECKED AND MAYBE IF There was more clarity then there will be NO BIG Secrets to be outed at a later date. There have been MPs and Councillors family members having jobs done in another district! Why because these multi national companies will do anything for the contracts and when my family member asked an under manager about a job that was done on a certain street, He was told that the CEO had initiated that these things have to be done. Yeah Contracts are there to be won and if you can fill in the boxes better than the others then you should be getting the Contracts But as soon as they make an erse of things There must be Comebacks. I believe that all Public Body contracts should have somebody there to oversee that all procedures have been followed and all concerned in awarding said contracts have to be accountable to the general public. But Hey Ho what do i know!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I am surprised that assertions of patronage and corruption seem so embedded. I was the senior manager mentioned above and no-one was ever promoted because they were a 'friend' at least in my area of responsibility - trying to pervert the established procedures to give any favour would have ensured a swift career end - I can say this without a doubt since I insisted on signing off any appointment personally, usually after a serious grilling of the manager who proposed it. However, I was lucky, the group managers who worked for me felt as I did that public service, being paid by the public, corruption/nepotism of any form was simply to be eradicated and attract the most serious penalties
There are also things called Standing Orders and Financial Regulations which MUST be followed and are designed to remove any possibility of corruption. Even at low value tenders these processes must be applied or a derogation for 1 or 2 allowable very valid reasons, obtained from usually the Chief Executive with a report explaining why Standing Orders applying in this case would mitigate against value for money or were simply just not possible for a specific reason. Some people may try to act corruptly still - the rewards for such in the public sector are very thin and discipline is very swift and life changing - no one would employ any, even very qualified people again if a taint of corruption was in their reference (which has to include their last employer).
Planning is usually the area most suspect and I do think controls there need to be very much more stringent since it is often a matter of personal interpretation of policy and judgements can be apparently perverse. There are a significant majorityofy honest staff in planning and the best way to ensure they are not subject to 'type criticism' is to tie down process so they cannot be 'assumed' to be responsible, where no hint of corruption exists.

Incidentally T Dan Smith and his associates prompted the Royal Commission into local government which resulted in wide-ranging changes to process and the extablishment of ever more rigorous process and public (councillor) approval processes to ensure public confidence - mind you it was in the 60'2, 70's. T Dan Smith must now be trying it on with Old Nick.
 
Can't speak for other public bodies but all FC contracts are open to open to random independent audit.

Procedures also dictate that no staff can be involved in awarding a contract where a relations is tendering.

Contract awards are often subject to an FOI enquiry but such an enquiry from somebody that did not tender is unlikely to be accepted unless a public interest case can be made (i.e Joe Blogg being nosey would be thrown out but someone from the press may be accepted). These are not FC rules but those of the information commissioner.
 
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