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Thread: German wires V's German shorthairs

  1. #1

    German wires V's German shorthairs

    As my last thread about GWP vs HWV seems to have been popular and there was very little fighting ,when I mentioned to the wife recently about the GWP she instantly said she preferred the German short-haired , having seen a particularly nice one in a beer garden at the end of the summer, so here we are!

    My main concern with the Hungarian wires is the lack of drive(my one), sure they will work if its obvious and its more or less there for them, but they don't seem to have the raw gusto to seek things out. However as a family/working dog they are fantastic.

    So just to recap I have had gun dogs for over 20yrs , the maddest of which was an the English pointer I had for 14yrs, I currently have a lab, a HWV and a terrier 2 of which are in there teens.

    My plan is to get another dog when one or two of the others have passed on and for it to be an integral part of the family,ultimately a one or if I'm lucky two dog household! I'm not doing the "Pen /Run thing anymore ,i have shoveled my fair share over the years.

    One of the Gem comments that stuck with me from the last thread was that "these type of dogs need stimulation not just exercise,otherwise you end up with a fit bored dog ".

    So opinions and experience about the German short-haired would be appreciated or maybe someone has had both. The dog would be primarily for deer.

  2. #2
    I can comment a little as I have two GWP's mother who is 8.5 and her pup who is 2.5. Both live inside and do a variety of work as well as being pets, generally at home they are no different to any other dog. They get a 45 minute or so walk in the morning then they relax, the pup is ok to be left for 4 hours or so now but her mum could be left 9 hours no problem. The pups worst trait if she thinks she has been left too long she will chew up the doormat..... but that seems to be improving. Working wise you won't struggle with drive and these beat each weekend over the shooting season and then do a variety of shooting the remainder, generally they are just good fun while being fantastic with our 2 year old and she can do anything to them. Given the chance they would spend all day with you but they don't have to, I have bitches generally which I think helps as does watching what you buy breeding wise. Most people don't need the hardest bred Continental blooded GWP, look at your needs then have a look arround and then also consider do you need the biggest boldest pup of the litter? with these you might not. The litter I had one dog pup stood out which belongs to a member on here and I'd have kept if I was after a dog but he is a handful from what I gather. A couple of other dog pups are in pet homes and have excellent, my pup I let my other half choose as there was nothing between the bitches. For a wire she listens and is pretty sensitive and has come on really well, for a "soft" one she will still peg muntjac if left to her own devices while beating. Deer wise they both have switched on very fast though not what I predominantly use them on.
    Can't comment on the GSP as never had one but the GWP when you get the right one is very handy.

  3. #3
    Think as with alomst all the HPR breeds it probably depends more on the individual dog than the breed sometimes as such massive differences between individuals.

    From wot i've seen the HWV usually have a bit more 'go' than the smooth viz, but possibly just wot i've seen. Quite like the HWV.

    The GSP are quite hard hunting dogs, i know when u watch them in FT situations they hunt very hard and wide, cover a hell of a ground, althou not quite as much as ur EP's would.
    Think they will still be quite 'needy' dogs that want attention and possibly noisey too.

    The more modern GWP lines are now far softer then they used to be, esp if u get something with more Danish type breeding as the german/DD could still be quite sharp but will depend on the individual dog

    All the smooth haired hpr breeds often struggle with the cold and many do not like water 1 bit and often refuse to swim (cue loads of GSP/viz owners saying the oppisate ) But they will sit and shiver under a high seat etc.

    Generally a lot about how lucky u are when u choose a pup any of the hpr breeds amongst others would work as deer dog but some will be easy to train and some a nightmare.

    Wot age is ur HWV? If u could get it up to standard would u really need another dog?
    Possibly if the dog is young enough it woud be worth trying to get some help to train it, depending wot ur looking for in a deer dog, but mainly walking to heel scenting deer, any tracking work should be on a leash so ur not wanting a dog to chase after every scent over the horizon.
    Wot 'gutso' is it lacking? D
    epending on ur training but dogs with a lot of 'gutso' can often be bad to get to walk to heel off lead, often far better to have a dog walking to heel 100% steady esp for stalking and sacrifice a bit of 'gutso' if u know wot i mean

    Not meaning anything here as i don't know u or dog, but often when a dog doesnae make the grade it is owners fualt and i know lads that have worked dogs for 30 odd years on the same shoot and there dogs are actually worse now as they've never really learned from there previous mistakes an carry on making them.
    Wot i'm trying to say is be well worth speaking to some of the more experienced deer dog boys on here to see if they can improve wot u've already got first, might be surprised how u could turn it round

  4. #4
    I have a GSP and a GWP, both bitches and from my limited experience I have found that for stalking the GWP is the only one that is out with me all the time. The GSP is the best looking of the two but has far too much energy for a gentle bimble around the woods so ends up frustrating me any time I take her out, however the GSP can find the dead ones quicker.
    Our GSP also winds my missus up because she always has to have last word and will stand her ground so several times I have been told I "need to get rid of that bloody dog!". Even though she was definitely the wife's choice at the time!
    Both are very well behaved and can be left all day without destroying the house but if I had to have one dog it would be the GWP or if I was sensible it would be a Lab!

  5. #5
    I hunt with both GSP and GWP. I'd give the edge for hunt drive to the GWP but the GSP make a better house dog.

    For a house dog, the smaller the dog the less poo needs to be cleaned up. Therefore I recommend a good smooth hair dachshund - with plenty of prey drive.

    Blaser K95 Stutzen - the ultimate deer stalking rifle

    Blaser R93 - Retired now and probably Moshe Dayan's last choice of hunting rifles.

  6. #6
    Thanks for the replies, "Countrryboy" my Hwv is nearly fourteen now so I think she probably past it !! As for training and a bit of coaching from those more experienced i couldn't agree more with you, must keep learning as we never know it all. I attended weekly training classes with my Labrador for about 4 months, I could bin all the training books I ever bought after that they made it so simple.
    So i will continue my research , but I think it will be the GWP in the end .

  7. #7
    Nae bother huntsman, i wrongly assumed ur HWV was young, not be that many folk had them as long as u. Only fairly recently they've started becoming popular.

    Ur dead right about when someone shows u the easy ways, does make dog training a doodle, althou with a lab its a doodle anyway most of the time.
    I'm sure wot ever u pick u'll be fine, just speak to the breeders etc.

    My only other comment is possibly be aware of buying a 'well bred' FT type dog no matter wot the breed if only wanting it for deer, a FT dog will be a hunting machine and could be quite 'hot' and may not as suited for deer work as a far calmer 'poorer bred' dog bred by stalkers or rough shooters who are wanting calmer steadier dogs.

  8. #8
    I've never had a GSP but am currently owned by two GWPs (!) - I'd echo what has been said previously about not worrying about drive. My first GWP is the softest wire I know but has never had any problem tackling deer. My second wire is totally switched on to deer at 1 year and can be a bit of a handful at the carcass. So with hindsight, I'd go for the more biddable puppy (as long as they didn't appear too clingy/anxious) rather than the most independent one. You want a dog that will quietly stay at heel because that is what it is going to be doing 99.9% of the time and trust me, they switch on when it's called for.

    There is a GSP in my DMG which does the job very well and I have heard very good things about HVs, HWVs & Large Munsterlanders . To be honest, it's down to the puppy and that's a bit of a lottery. The only HPR I'd steer clear of for deer work is the brittany spaniel.


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by huntsman View Post

    One of the Gem comments that stuck with me from the last thread was that "these type of dogs need stimulation not just exercise,otherwise you end up with a fit bored dog ".

    So opinions and experience about the German short-haired would be appreciated or maybe someone has had both. The dog would be primarily for deer.
    Ive had 3 GSP's now, love them to bits and they have all been part of the family as well as working companions.
    in their favour they are intelligent, loyal, affectionate, good with kids, very hard working, fearless, hate cats, wide ranging (working them over moors or rough shooting is a joy) and very much consider themselves honorary human beings.

    They can be - hard mouthed, noisy, dismissive of other dogs, headstrong, destructive if left for too long, water shy (1 of mine loves water, the other hates it), they really hate cats (mine have killed 2 each, but they were in my garden) and they definitely need to know who's the boss - give them an inch and they'll take a mile!

    A lot of it is down to the individual pup so look carefully at sire and dam and get as much info about them as you can. My 6 yr old male is very "hot", with a fair amount of European blood in him, he's got fantastic drive when he's hunting game, but he's no peg dog! the elder (16yr old) one was much calmer but not as much drive when hunting, I used to take her stalking with me and she was great, especially given my lack of experience with training at the time. Personally I'd never blame the dog more the trainer and I know Ive made mistakes!!

    Most of the shooting I do with the dog is game rather than taking him stalking on foot (small working syndicate and helping keeper)
    If you're after a dog specifically for stalking there may well be better choices depending on what you want to do (blood trailing?). I'd definitely look very carefully at mum and pup if you want a GSP to walk quietly to heel and sit under the high seat for hours on end, not saying they can't do it, but in my experience thats not their forte. I've got no direct experience of GWPS but I do know a few stalkers who use them and rate them very highly indeed.
    good luck with it!

  10. #10

    I have a GSP bitch (avatar picture) and a Korthals Dog. My GSP comes from mostly German stock and as most GSPs, she likes to hunt far and wide at pace. I found her quite mechanical in her training, whereby she would learn and perform tasks very well but her drive did leave her relatively quickly. In her first puppy test, she scored out of 20 in that order, 20, 18, 19, 8. By the fourth test, she was loosing interest and it has remained a feature. Not a huge deal as my Korthals was and remain the numero uno dog. She does however possess more natural tracking ability, will track scent on the ground while the Korthals almost exclusively air-scent. Obviously they were both trained for more regular HPR work but I was asked if I would train her as a Search and Rescue dog as people involved in that thought she displayed good signs.

    At home she's well settled. She's a 0% to 100% kind of dog, with nothing in between. She doesn't like to hang around, feels the cold if she does but happy to run all day and win in water in the depth of winter. Just don't let her stop as she suddenly realises it's bloody cold and lets you know about it.

    There are examples of great deer dogs in all HPR breeds. I believe the choice should be more about what you can get on with in practical terms, from size, coat type, general traits and the environment in which you operate. GSP are pretty full on, but biddable. They look great in black, low maintenance but they do shed continuously. Not huge amounts but still, more than my wire-haired Korthals.

    If you find a good one, I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

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