Leaving a firearm away from home

Cyres

Well-Known Member
I am a regular visitor to Devon and the house has an approved firearms cabinet attached in a suitable location. . If I have sole access to the keys where would I stand if left one of my rifles there?

The house owners do not have FAC'S.

If it was possible could be very handy to save carrying weapons to and from Devon.

Advise please.

D
 
Nobody read the condition on their FAC?

Here's a clue - it's one of the prescribed conditions:

a) the firearms and ammunition to which the certificate relates must at all times
(except in the circumstances set out in paragraph b) below) be stored securely
so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the firearms or
ammunition by an unauthorised person;
 
Nobody read the condition on their FAC?

Here's a clue - it's one of the prescribed conditions:

a) the firearms and ammunition to which the certificate relates must at all times
(except in the circumstances set out in paragraph b) below) be stored securely
so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the firearms or
ammunition by an unauthorised person;

he did say they would be locked in a cabinet which he would have sole access to. The flo I'm sure will make a judgement call on what he/she believes is 'reasonably practicable'
 
I guess, to look at it another way, it might be a similar position to someone who lives in shared accommodation and works away (offshore for eg)?
 
A requirement of your FAC is that your firearms are stored in such a manner that unauthorised persons cannot gain access. A guncabineqt is by far the best and if only you have access to it then that should be sufficient. If others have access to it then a chain and padlock around the action can prevent its use. If you can keep the bolt and ammo with you so much the better. There are plenty of rifles kept in such a manner on highland estates for clients / guests, particularly given the fun and games of transporting weapons through airports.
 
he did say they would be locked in a cabinet which he would have sole access to. The flo I'm sure will make a judgement call on what he/she believes is 'reasonably practicable'

I guess, to look at it another way, it might be a similar position to someone who lives in shared accommodation and works away (offshore for eg)?

You're over-thinking it. No need to obtain the 'opinion' of an FEO/FLO and what they might or might not think complies. If the OP follows the H O Guidance Chapter 19 and maybe the advice contained in the Firearms Security Handbook if applicable, it's a defence against prosecution to ensure that you have prevented 'so far as is reasonably practicable' access by unauthorised persons. Follow the Guidance and your doing just that.
 
Years ago when i lived in a small flat, my pistols were kept at my parents home and my rifle was kept in the armoury at my shooting club, all i did was inform my licensing office of my change of permanent address and where my firearms would be kept.
Maybe things are the same now or maybe they have changed, even though your certificate says you only need to make sure your firearms are not accessible by unauthorised persons, the fact that one of your rifles is not on the premisses where you are living may be good enough reason to inform your licensing office of the address where it is actually kept, talk to them they will tell you.

Ian.
 
You're over-thinking it. No need to obtain the 'opinion' of an FEO/FLO and what they might or might not think complies. If the OP follows the H O Guidance Chapter 19 and maybe the advice contained in the Firearms Security Handbook if applicable, it's a defence against prosecution to ensure that you have prevented 'so far as is reasonably practicable' access by unauthorised persons. Follow the Guidance and your doing just that.


+1
I think a lot of people go completely OTT on the security issue, and tie themselves up in a lot of unnecessary knots.
Secured in such a way as to prevent unauthorised access as far as is reasonably possible is all that's required.
 
I am a regular visitor to Devon and the house has an approved firearms cabinet attached in a suitable location. . If I have sole access to the keys where would I stand if left one of my rifles there?

The house owners do not have FAC'S.

If it was possible could be very handy to save carrying weapons to and from Devon.

Advise please.

D

As long as only you have access to the safe then there shouldn't be an issue, though you would have to notify your licensing authority as to where all your various guns are kept.
 
I stopped in a pub with b+b and as I booked in I was told that they didn't want the gun in the room. my first reaction was to find somewhere else to stop but that wasn't an option, I called my feo and he said it was actually safer locked in the truck covered over with the bolt out as the truck had an alarm. A hotel room unless its chained up to something solid is not ideal as when your not in the room technically the hotel has spare keys so have access to your room. So in my opinion a side with orions quote.
 
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you would have to notify your licensing authority as to where all your various guns are kept.

Why? Is there a requirement for this somewhere in the Guidance or elsewhere? I have at least 3 of my rifles that are jointly held on other FACS. I have never been requested, nor see no reason to inform the FLD as to where they are at any given time. The FEO wasn't bothered that they were not available for inspection at renewal either.
 
I think some of the confusion stems from the application form 101, section C.

Q22 Give address of the location at which the firearms and See Notes to Part E on page 4.ammunition concerned are to be stored including details ofany certificate holder sharing the storage facilities

22 a If the guns are to be stored at the address given in question 6,tick this box ❒
22 b If the guns are to be stored in a British Standard gun cabinettick this box ❒

At the end of the day you are accountable for your guns security.
If you get one pinched or lose it you'll have some explaining to do and it will be up to the CPS to decide whether your actions satisfied the legal requirement.
 
I can't see a problem. I assume the house occupants are reasonable people who take normal security precautions with their property and within that is a locked and secured cabinet that they don't have access to. Surely that level of security is the same as in your own house.

The only issue would be if (and you don't make it clear, Cyres, but I guess not) the house owners didn't live there and it was empty. Or perhaps it's let out to people whom you don't know, like a holiday let arrangement.
 
mmm :doh: WHAT about all '' US '' shooting ,,,,,,, the people who travel to shoot Deer game and attend place,s like BISLEY camp sometimes for days or even weeks I Have for thirty years + and never seen anyone with a steel gun cabinet , everyone just use,s there common sense and are aware and take necessary precautions this happens hundreds of times every week of the year , and how many guns go missing I Suggest very few it ANY Although some have been known to go missing from THERE approved steel storage cabinet from time to time :rolleyes: :)
 
I stopped in a pub with b+b and as I booked in I was told that they didn't want the gun in the room. my first reaction was to find somewhere else to stop but that wasn't an option, I called my feo and he said it was actually safer locked in the truck covered over with the bolt out as the truck had an alarm. A hotel room unless its chained up to something solid is not ideal as when your not in the room technically the hotel has spare keys so have access to your room. So in my opinion a side with orions quote.

I carry a bike locking cable in the car. If gub is allowed in the B&B then lpck to the bath handles. If they dont want the gun inside then its locked to an anchor point in the boot and covered with a rug. Dog is locked in the boot too which belps!
 
Rifle in room, secured with steel cable bike lock to something like a radiator pipe or bed frame, bolt (or fore-end if shotgun) in jacket pocket (stays with me if possible), ammo locked in car.

Not always that way around though, sometimes rifle secured in car with bike lock, ammo and bolt in luggage in hotel room is a better option if you don't want to advertise the fact you have firearms by carrying a gun slip in.
if you separate key components of the firearm and lock away parts then even if they break into your car or steal from your hotel room they do not end up with a functioning firearm.

you would be hard pressed to be shown not to have taken due care in these cases.

I'm slightly wary of the cabinet issue as, like all locks, who else has a key?
in that case I'd hide the bolt elsewhere.
 
Why? Is there a requirement for this somewhere in the Guidance or elsewhere? I have at least 3 of my rifles that are jointly held on other FACS. I have never been requested, nor see no reason to inform the FLD as to where they are at any given time. The FEO wasn't bothered that they were not available for inspection at renewal either.

I think some of the confusion stems from the application form 101, section C.

Q22 Give address of the location at which the firearms and See Notes to Part E on page 4.ammunition concerned are to be stored including details ofany certificate holder sharing the storage facilities

22 a If the guns are to be stored at the address given in question 6,tick this box ❒
22 b If the guns are to be stored in a British Standard gun cabinettick this box ❒

At the end of the day you are accountable for your guns security.
If you get one pinched or lose it you'll have some explaining to do and it will be up to the CPS to decide whether your actions satisfied the legal requirement.

This is what I was told by the FEO I spoke to at the time when I lived in Surrey - they want to know where you live and they want to know where the guns are stored long term if thats in a different location.
 
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