A realistic picture of Brexit

Opinion is fine. But to make a decision, you should look at facts! And if the facts do not support the opinion, then ignorance is a word one could use to describe the resulting situation. Irrespective of whether willful or accidental.
Supporting the above, have a look at this.
EU Referendum: British sovereignty and Europe - everything you need to know - Telegraph
Scroll two third down if you want the summary on all the important area.
As I've said before and will say again: There is nothing that a Brexit will solve!
All we are doing is gambling our hard earned.
 
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So, where did he mention us HAVING to take immigrants if the eu say so at the moment, or the billions of £££ we hand over, and, technically the The European Court of Human Rights could just be ignored if independent of the eu (I'm sure Russia bow to them)

He's talking defeatist cr*p !
 
When I read some of the contributions, it's almost like we're at the pub.
Nothing to support the argument but vague generalizations picked from memory combined with a good dose of name calling and or outrage. It's lazy and boring. Well actually with a few pints of beer it's good fun.

From the Telegraph article mentioned above:

"Immigration
Britain would be able to have total control over its borders and decide who can come in, but it would be forced to compromise on this if it wants to still trade with the continent.
Switzerland is not part of the union, but is forced to accept unlimited EU migration in order to have any access to the single market, and has been locked in an intractable fight with Brussels in a bid to put a cap on the inflow. Norway isn’t part of the EU, but has a higher rate of migration than Britain since it is in the Schengen area.
The UK could refuse to accept EU migrants and trade with Europe under WTO rules, but it would get the same commercial access as countries like China or Russia, and also have to pay external EU tariffs.
Britain could seek to opt out of free movement and seek a “free trade agreement”, but it could still have to pay some tariffs and face barriers – like having to heed EU product standards – in order to export to the continent."

Read the rest yourself and explain point by point where the authors or the experts they have cited are wrong. That would be really interesting.

 
So, where did he mention us HAVING to take immigrants if the eu say so at the moment, or the billions of £££ we hand over, and, technically the The European Court of Human Rights could just be ignored if independent of the eu (I'm sure Russia bow to them)

He's talking defeatist cr*p !

"Defeatist", now there's an interesting word.

We are not experimenting here, if the plan doesn't work we don't have the option just to opt back in and expect everything to be as it was. If we get this one wrong it's the future of the UK that's at stake. Get it wrong and we could cripple the £, the economy, any glimmer of inward investment and manufacturing would all but disappear. Unemployment would go on the rampage once more.

The keyboard warriors would all be up in arms about how badly the government was doing and how they wished they lived somewhere else.

A vote to leave is a huge leap into the unknown, like playing the roulette table. A vote to stay keeps us at the table with a chance to influence how Europe develops. The odds on our own success are much better in than out.

Europe isn't right at the moment, there are a lot of countries ****ed off about the same things as we are, the bureaucracy, the immigration, the list goes on. Europe will have to change if it is to survive. It's not a reason to leave, it's a reason to fight to change the bad and take full advantage of the good, which is basically what the leaders of all the major parties are saying - love them or hate them.
 
"Defeatist", now there's an interesting word.

We are not experimenting here, if the plan doesn't work we don't have the option just to opt back in and expect everything to be as it was. If we get this one wrong it's the future of the UK that's at stake. Get it wrong and we could cripple the £, the economy, any glimmer of inward investment and manufacturing would all but disappear. Unemployment would go on the rampage once more.

The keyboard warriors would all be up in arms about how badly the government was doing and how they wished they lived somewhere else.

A vote to leave is a huge leap into the unknown, like playing the roulette table. A vote to stay keeps us at the table with a chance to influence how Europe develops. The odds on our own success are much better in than out.

Europe isn't right at the moment, there are a lot of countries ****ed off about the same things as we are, the bureaucracy, the immigration, the list goes on. Europe will have to change if it is to survive. It's not a reason to leave, it's a reason to fight to change the bad and take full advantage of the good, which is basically what the leaders of all the major parties are saying - love them or hate them.

You've more or less defined "defeatist" yourself there in that post :rolleyes:
 
10 points to consider about Brexit and the EU Referendum - Dr Andy Williamson

From someone who knows the detail.

A slightly more logical view of it than some of the posts on here or the crap in some of the papers.

Good post.

The Britexiters are as blinkered as the Yessers in the Scottish referendum - "it's all someone elses fault and we would have been better off on our own" - err, and please usexplain in a bit more depth please, we have been through a World recession after all. Their answer - "just because" is about as much as they came upwith , aka "a big boy did it and ran away"
 
So, where did he mention us HAVING to take immigrants if the eu say so at the moment, or the billions of £££ we hand over, and, technically the The European Court of Human Rights could just be ignored if independent of the eu (I'm sure Russia bow to them)

He's talking defeatist cr*p !


That would also apply to the rights we currently enjoy regarding holday pay, minimum wage, sick pay, maternity/paternity leave etc. To think the Tories who are all about making money from big business and don't care about the working man and woman would still honour all of these is naive at best. What it doesn't mean is all of a sudden we'll stop immigration, no human rights for criminals and be able to deport hate mongers at the drop of a hat.
 
I will not be taking any notice on any of the propaganda that has already been put out there or any of the stuff that will be coming out before the referendum. I will base my decision on what I have seen of the Eu.
The US government want us to stay in and now the G20 are telling us we are doomed if we come out. I will vote OUT.
 
10 points to consider about Brexit and the EU Referendum - Dr Andy Williamson

From someone who knows the detail.




Apparently Dr Andy Williamson is an "international expert in digital democracy, social media, society and policy" that's it then, we will all have to vote to stay in! It looks to me like most of his points are just his own opinions and not strictly factual.

They are rather general to say the least and lacking in any significant detail, basically nothing that hasn't been stated by those that want us to remain in already and all of which could be substancially challenged. Though to his credit, he did mention that Cameron's so called renegotiations were practically worthless.
 
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That would also apply to the rights we currently enjoy regarding holday pay, minimum wage, sick pay, maternity/paternity leave etc. To think the Tories who are all about making money from big business and don't care about the working man and woman would still honour all of these is naive at best. What it doesn't mean is all of a sudden we'll stop immigration, no human rights for criminals and be able to deport hate mongers at the drop of a hat.


Well, it seems I did ok before we had it, why wouldn't I now?
 
Facts as published by our own official statisticians
Net immigration during the last 3 years has been 330000, 315000 then 330000 approximately
The number of working taxpayers have remained at approximately 28 million for each of these years
For that reason alone I would vote to leave the EU as the figures are simply unsustainable.
The original vote was to join the common market not the united states of europe.
A common market has now been created that is worldwide by the internet.
We no longer need EU departments in Brussels that investigate speeding in Europe as they are clearly worse than useless. By the way I worked in Brussels for nearly 2 years and met many folk socially that were doing extremely high paid jobs for the EU that were really jobs that did not contribute to our society. I met mep's in Kitty O'Sheas who were claiming their £300 a week flying allowance despite not actually travelling.
There are no shackles on the beast of Brussels
I'm out.
 
Facts as published by our own official statisticians
Net immigration during the last 3 years has been 330000, 315000 then 330000 approximately
The number of working taxpayers have remained at approximately 28 million for each of these years
For that reason alone I would vote to leave the EU as the figures are simply unsustainable.

But your facts are obviously trumped by Dr Williamson because he has a blog and is an expert in 'digital democracy' - whatever the hell that is? ..."not least because referendums solve nothing" - other than a democratic expression of the electorate's will, possibly? Just because he has a hipster beard and an open neck shirt doesn't mean he isn't a Nazis...

If folk can't assess Dr Williamson for what he obviously is, I suspect they are incapable of making a dispassionate judgement call on the referendum. I would put slightly greater store by the views expressed by Lord King, who I suspect is probably even better informed that Dr Dave?
 
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