FAC Application - Medical Condition

Hello all

Big problems today guys. Recently applied for my FAC via North Wales Police. I have suffered from a stress related illness during my militany days 15 years ago so annotated it in my application. I received a letter from North Wales Police this morning with an additional letter to give to my GP asking for a report to be written with words to the effect that I was medically fit enough to hold a FAC. I presented the letter to my GP reception and asked if they could assist, I said that this would probably incur a fee which is no problem. After some deliberation between the receptionist and the practise manager they told me that it was their surgery policy not to assist in any matters relating to FAC or shotgun applications so refused to help me! They advised me to try another surgery. I have to admit that my surgery (Rhoslan, Colwyn Bay) is not very helpful at the best of times however I'm pretty well snookered. I'm thinking of approaching a private medical practitioner to assist. I just wanted to know if anyone has had this problem before or could advise. I'm obviously calling North Wales Police FAC office on Monday to explain my dilemma.
 
My first bit of advice would be to approach your GP directly. It is not the receptionist's or the practice manager's jobs to rule on things like this. This is a matter of professional competence and they are not competent. Talk to your GP before the police. Be polite but firm. You might also ask your GP why their employees think they are qualified in this matter.

Best wishes,

David.
 
Isn't that discrimination on your surgery's part? Definitely sounds like it's time to change doctors.

Hope you get it sorted out soon.
 
http://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploa...arms-licensing-medical-process-fact-sheet.pdf

Part way down page three is the bit about what to do if your GP won't do it - and it is basically to call the FLD as you're planning to do already.

I'm still completely flummoxed as to why the BASC supports the idea that those with declared conditions have to foot the GP's bill for the report whcih the Police require. It seems discriminatory against those with declarable health-problems/disabilities that they should be personally financially penalised when the beneficiary of the arrangement is ostensibly the public at large. One wonders whether there might be problems relating to conflict of intererest if the applicant is the one paying the GP for the report.
 
I know it doesn't help but it could be that the surgery have taken that stance in protest of the onus being put on them to declare you fit to hold a fac rather than because they are against guns.

I'm sure GPS feel they may have the finger pointed at them if a shooter leaves the reservation and they had signed off on them
 
Hello all

Thanks for your input, very much appreciated. I will touch base with North Wales Police FAC office on Monday to discuss the issue with my local surgery. I was under the impression that the Police contacted my GP directly and not via me. Anyway, I will update my progress on Monday. A friend has said that I should make a formal complaint on the grounds of indirect discrimination against my surgery however I'm not to sure about this route.
 
A friend has said that I should make a formal complaint on the grounds of indirect discrimination against my surgery however I'm not to sure about this route.

I'd see what the FLD has to say first. As they seems to have allowed for the possibility of GPs not playing along with this it seems unlikely that the GP practice is doing something that they're not entitled to do. As the document says:
Applicants and certificate holders should not be disadvantaged if their GP does not provide the information needed.

They're going to be disadvantaged financially either way, of course: but as BASC and the Home Office thinks that's fine, I guess there's nothing to worry about.


The actual discrimination seems to me that folk who have a history of one of the specified medical problems have to factor in the £??? to pay for a GPs report to be supplied to the FLD in addition to the usual application fee.
This, and BASC's support for it, I still find hard to understand.
 
My first bit of advice would be to approach your GP directly. It is not the receptionist's or the practice manager's jobs to rule on things like this. This is a matter of professional competence and they are not competent. Talk to your GP before the police. Be polite but firm. You might also ask your GP why their employees think they are qualified in this matter.

Best wishes,

David.

As above! They are not in a position to make statements like that. Speak with the doctor directly and ignore the bimbos who sit behind the counter full of themselves with a mug of tea grasped tightly in their mitts as if their life depends on it.
 
My understanding is that the police are only allowed to ask for factual information regarding your medical condition. They are not allowed to ask your GP for a "yes he's fit/no he's not" type statement.
 
Totally agree. Doctors will say "but we can't tell you who is going to snap, and past mental illness is not a good predictor either of future propensity, or any risk of violence to self or others" and refuse to say "yes he's safe" or "no he's not".
 
Surely the idea of involving the GP is because they are supposed to be someone who has a long term and ongoing relationship with the person (despite the fact that most people I know go to the Doctors about once every two or three years and, personally, I have hardly ever seen the same one twice as it is always locums on duty) so it seems a bit pointless suggesting that you go to another practice?

They will only be able to base a comment on your medical records plus what you tell them which, presumably, won't be that you are a potential maniac living on a razors edge! With this in mind, you may as well ask for a copy of your medical records and send this to the Licencing Dept let them evaluate it for themselves. I believe that you are entitled to have a copy and the only charge should be the real admin cost of photocopying/printing.

Doctor's receptionists are a funny breed, I've always found it a bit strange that much is made of Doctor/Patient confidentiality but, in order to get to see a Doctor in the first place you have to have to give all the details in a shouted interview through a glass screen in a busy waiting room!

To be fair to GP's, I suspect that their reluctance to help has less to do with any anti-gun feelings or fear of blame and more to do with making a stand against being asked to do more work that was never in their job description. Having said that, I believe GP's do earn fairly substantial salaries and are able to directly charge for the extra work so I haven't got a lot of sympathy.
 
Personally, when (if) I go to see the doc, when the receptionist asks why I want to see the doctor, I tell them that it is none of their business (politely of course).
Receptionists and managers have no need to know why you want to speak to the doctor.

I don't even know the name of my doctor, that is how often I see him, or her!
 
They will only be able to base a comment on your medical records plus what you tell them which, presumably, won't be that you are a potential maniac living on a razors edge! With this in mind, you may as well ask for a copy of your medical records and send this to the Licencing Dept let them evaluate it for themselves. I believe that you are entitled to have a copy and the only charge should be the real admin cost of photocopying/printing.

Actually, they are only supposed to ask the doctor for factual information from the records, not opinion or any assessment of "fitness to hold an FAC" so that's exactly what they should receive. The doctor would be well within their rights to refuse to offer an opinion.
 
My first bit of advice would be to approach your GP directly. It is not the receptionist's or the practice manager's jobs to rule on things like this. This is a matter of professional competence and they are not competent. Talk to your GP before the police. Be polite but firm. You might also ask your GP why their employees think they are qualified in this matter.

Best wishes,

David.


it is if the practice as a whole which is the Drs have decided that that is the policy . it is unlikly hte manager and the receptionist have coluded to invent a policy based on their own views and implementing that without the Drs of the practice knowing

you can jsut make an appointment to see your Dr and ask them the I would assume state the same as Practice policy
 
Same thing happened to me, I changed doctors on the grounds that we had personal differences that meant I did not feel I could use them moving forward.

It is discriminatory and I'm not sure why Doctors feel it is professional to let their personal feelings interfere with patient care, but I'm sure BASC or someone will get involved if you need to push it.
 
Hi, my wife is a practice manager of a doctors practice, this is her response 1. It's not nhs work, so yes there would be a fee and no they don't have to do it 2. Pm is quite entitled to say no- they have prob previously discussed it as a practice. 3. GP will not say yes he is safe as that is opinion- he will provide a report on medical history and current medication. 4. They normally contact GP directly. P.s we are not all bimbo's . Hope this helps , and good luck to the OP.
 
Hi, my wife is a practice manager of a doctors practice, this is her response 1. It's not nhs work, so yes there would be a fee and no they don't have to do it 2. Pm is quite entitled to say no- they have prob previously discussed it as a practice. 3. GP will not say yes he is safe as that is opinion- he will provide a report on medical history and current medication. 4. They normally contact GP directly. P.s we are not all bimbo's . Hope this helps , and good luck to the OP.

I saw an article saying Doctors now have to mark patients records to show whether or not they have an FAC - why is that NHS work but approving an FAC isn't? Not attacking your wife, just genuinely interested in your/her point of view?
http://www.sporting-rifle.com/news/gun-code-added-to-medical-records/

Personally I've no issue with a fee, but I do take issue with someone inflicting their moral beliefs upon me (aka Fascism). If you cannot obtain an FAC without GP sign off, and that GP has been responsible for your mental health, then why is it unreasonable to ask them to declare you are in a fit mental state?
 
I can try and answer this but I don't work for a doctor and the wife is in work, however, I also work for a government funded agency, we get a set amount of money to provide a service, if new legislation is made we do not always get additional funding for the extra work, we have to suck it up of cut other parts of the job we do. As for the doctors charging, a lot of doctors surgery are actually owned by the doctors themselves, the staff are also employed by the doctors , not the NHS, so additional work will be charged for if it is above the level of work that can be claimed for from the NHS as the doctors are paying the staff directly, not the NHS., basically legislation is made but no funding is given to those who are expected to provide the service. I hope this sort of explains it. The surgery my wife works for would not refuse to co operate with the police on bunny hugging grounds. She is a keen shooter herself and even has her own , firearms cert and spaniel for rough shooting.

Ps. From the wife-link he shared does not say GP has to mark patients record, they have merely provided us with an appropriate read code to do so which is great as records should be complete and keeping full accurate records is a requirement of the nhs. However any report writing- even ones we are obliged to do such as for independent living allowance - attract a fee as they are extra work. I'm still a bit confused why police haven't gone direct to the GP.
 
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I can try and answer this but I don't work for a doctor and the wife is in work, however, I also work for a government funded agency, we get a set amount of money to provide a service, if new legislation is made we do not always get additional funding for the extra work, we have to suck it up of cut other parts of the job we do. As for the doctors charging, a lot of doctors surgery are actually owned by the doctors themselves, the staff are also employed by the doctors , not the NHS, so additional work will be charged for if it is above the level of work that can be claimed for from the NHS as the doctors are paying the staff directly, not the NHS., basically legislation is made but no funding is given to those who are expected to provide the service. I hope this sort of explains it.

Yep totally understand & agree re the charge thanks.

What are your thoughts on doctors who refuse to help on moral/ethical grounds though? I was told the head of my practice "doesn't believe in firearms" so I had to change GP... though I did attempt to show her some pictures in the hope that she would come to believe they existed :lol:
 
Their personal beliefs and opinions shouldn't come into it at all. If they can def say they have been refused because of GP beliefs then I would approach local LMC. Not for Dr's to discriminate in that way- in my opinion.

refusal for non nhs work should only come down to capacity and as most won't turn down extra money they just put a delay on it- you can have it but minimum 3 weeks wait etc... absolutely not due to own opinion
 
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