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Thread: Less than 24 hours to go.

  1. #1

    Less than 24 hours to go.

    I will be voting remain on Thursday. It was always my intent, but the last few weeks have seen a change from gut reaction to a reasoned choice. There is no doubt that the bureaucracy that goes with the EU, the waste of money in the administration and the occasional illogical moves (eg against GM food) are its bad points. But these problems already exist within the UK bureaucracy, itís just that the EU is bigger, and so is the administration. I regard the EU as unwieldy, but not undemocratic. We elect MEPs every five years and if they donít do their jobs properly, we can remove them. But we donít watch what they do and we often elect less than suitable candidates. There is the reasonable question regarding the loss of sovereignty, but the UK still creates and administers its own laws and, more to the point, often embellishes EU law beyond its original purpose (eg ďthe cascadeĒ as it applies to veterinary medicines). Itís worth considering that those employed in administration in the UK will not be quick to remove these laws, should we leave. And, as the UK is a civilised country, which legislation, present in all the other EU countries would we remove?

    But all this aside, there is little doubt that people behave better and function better when they co-operate; when they see similarities quicker than they see differences; when they realise that debate and compromise are better than opposition and conflict. In contrast, when peopleís policies and actions are based on arbitrary notions of who they are, based on an accident of birth; then prejudice and resentment are not far away.

    Any human, anywhere in the world, should have the freedom to say what they think, to live where they want, to travel where they like, to work where they can. Vets have promoted ďfive freedoms,Ē for many years as a baseline for animal welfare, one of which is the freedom to express normal behaviour. Iíd contend that humans have as much right to express normal behaviour where and when they want. The EU may indeed have its faults, but it has facilitated exactly this behaviour between its member states for nearly 70 years. If the rest of the world followed our example, so that barriers were part of history lessons, that would be a great legacy.

  2. #2
    That's why I've always preferred vets to doctors!

    I'm an outer for Europe but non-nationalist, so I guess conflicted? My reasoning based on Europe having gone too far beyond the single market in the direction of federalism and this being likely to fail.

    In 24 hours it will all be behind us, and like the indyref, look forward to folks reconciling differences and going with the outcome.
    I can resist everything, except temptation.

  3. #3
    The EU has had since 1973 to show us the benefits of being a member, and all I can see is more interference, less autonomy given to the UK government, and massively increased costs. I can see no benefits to remaining a member, so will be voting to leave. Unlike JocksTalk, I AM a nationalist, and consider small government to be the only sensible way ahead for ANY country. A small government, voted for and accountable TO the very people that placed it into power is far far preferable to being overseen by some remote and tangled conglomerate with hugely-divided loyalties
    A Man should be wise, but never too wise. He who does not know his fate in advance is free of care

  4. #4
    It is difficult to understand the functioning of the EU, the two bodies, one unelected the other marginalised and controlled by the beaurocracy of the unelected body. What is done in their name is simply not capable of being properly accounted for. No accounts have EVER been signed off for the EU.
    I hate waste, I dislike corruption, I dont see everyone should have the right to do what they want when it impacts in a grossly negative way for those people who have lived here and paid taxes for most of their lifetime to support a system which they cannot reap the benefits of, because its overused.
    I am not racist, I am not xenophobic, nor jingoistic, I am an Englishman, proud to be so, have paid in to the system 'we' set up for the population of this country, for the whole of my working life at 40% of income.
    I shall be voting to leave, you vote as you want its your right. Who says we cant cope with another 15 million by 2025 ! Its just that I'd rather not.

  5. #5
    We might make some of our laws, but the High court in London is now defunct, as the courts in Brussels hold sway now.
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  6. #6
    I have a bottle of Champagne in the Fridge for Friday evening when the results are in and we stay in the EU by 53% to 47% +/-0.5%pts.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pine Marten View Post
    I have a bottle of Champagne in the Fridge for Friday evening when the results are in and we stay in the EU by 53% to 47% +/-0.5%pts.
    I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way but it will be close I'm sure.

  8. #8
    I've personally narrowed it down to a simple question :-

    Do I want to live in a federal Europe or do I want Great Britain to become a self governing sovereign nation again?

    I did want our children to offer guidance, they've got to spend longer living with the consequences.

  9. #9
    It's been a fairly dirty fight from both sides up to now, but I think on balance the remain campaign has been the most dishonest; there's been a few examples of this, such as the public spending on leaflets, negotiating with other European states to withhold controversial proposals until after the referendum, and most recently Osborne's "punishment tax".

    That final point was just disgraceful - it amounts to blackmailing the electorate; do as you're told or we'll rob you. Any chance of me being persuaded to vote to remain ended there.


  10. #10
    I made my own mind up years ago,its a bloated ,overmanned unelected mess.Any one know who the 5 Commisioner,s are ????who run this mess.Anyone ask Mrs Merckel why millions need to come here after the country has filled up already .Why should the EU parliament move every six months having years ago voted to stop this massive waste of money and resources ??Theyre abolition of internal border,s has cost the lives of how many people in these terrorist attacks.Its common sense you cant stop an attack if you doint know who,s in your country and why theyre here.And as an aside and no its not rascism its a fact im an ethnic minority in my own workplace 12% of the workforce of nearly 600 are British the rest are Polish/Latvian/Romanian /Spanish/French /Turkish .So is the EU helping British unemployment i certainly dont see any sign of that
    Last edited by tozzybum; 22-06-2016 at 14:53.
    she buys shoes i buy ,shooting,she stops buying shoes,il be amazed

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