Neck Shots?

jon15

Well-Known Member
Neck shots?

Last night I shot a four pointed roe buck at around 50yrds with a .243 105gr SP round, he was walking away from me in a tram line and only offered a shot when he turned his head to one side to browse on foliage, I had a steady rest tripod sticks.

I shot him exactly where I aimed, 2/3rds of the way up his neck and in the middle, he dropped on the spot and I then reloaded and waited about a minute before approaching him, when I arrived at the deer his eyes were rolling in his head and his body was slightly crunched and tense with small muscle convulsions.

By the time I was ready to deal with the situation he was expired, I take very few neck shots and although he did not move from the spot where I shot him I have not stopped thinking about it, thus I am writing this post for some advise, as I wandered if it is just a bad experience or bad placement as I know many of you take neck shots on a regular basis.
 
He was dead, if you severed the spinal column he would have felt nothing, not the worst way to go and no meat damage

IMHO
 
Neck Shots

Gents

Yes thats the thing with the old neck shots in that they do still seem alert above the impact area for as long as a min I found in the past, kind of the brain is still working-however the body is unable to deal with any form of command from it.

I did feel pretty uneasy I recall with the first one I took for much the same reasons, I do still take them when I can within reason & have found that I am happier with a going away shot to the back of the neck.

Regs Lee
 
Gents

Yes thats the thing with the old neck shots in that they do still seem alert above the impact area for as long as a min I found in the past, kind of the brain is still working-however the body is unable to deal with any form of command from it.

I did feel pretty uneasy I recall with the first one I took for much the same reasons, I do still take them when I can within reason & have found that I am happier with a going away shot to the back of the neck.

Regs Lee

I certainly don't shoot enough deer to make a habit of neck shots, but Lee seems to have covered well here.
 
Neck shots?

Last night I shot a four pointed roe buck at around 50yrds with a .243 105gr SP round, he was walking away from me in a tram line and only offered a shot when he turned his head to one side to browse on foliage, I had a steady rest tripod sticks.

I shot him exactly where I aimed, 2/3rds of the way up his neck and in the middle, he dropped on the spot and I then reloaded and waited about a minute before approaching him, when I arrived at the deer his eyes were rolling in his head and his body was slightly crunched and tense with small muscle convulsions.

By the time I was ready to deal with the situation he was expired, I take very few neck shots and although he did not move from the spot where I shot him I have not stopped thinking about it, thus I am writing this post for some advise, as I wandered if it is just a bad experience or bad placement as I know many of you take neck shots on a regular basis.
sounds like a perfect neck shot to me!!:thumb:
 
Nice shot and well done buddy..

If fifty yards is within your capabilities and your comfortable for a neck shot whose to argue..

If you were in doubt or uncomfortable from the off maybe whistling him up and a broadside might have made for a more comfortable nights sleep..

Maybe the broadside might have had more complications with bullet fragmentation or many other scenarios.. you just dont know

In some cases maybe not taking the shot atall and looking forward to another day might be the best choice.

Each ones diferent jon but fair play for having the compassion and posting it up

ATB

Terry
 
Jon15,
I have had your exact experience but I think one factor is that with a general body shot we tend to wait the regulation 10mins before we approach so the life has left them. With a neck shot and an animal down I was more confident that it was dead so went straight forward. Mine remained "live" for a few minutes and I "finished it" with a knife, it had been hit with a BT and there was no spine at the point of impact so it was dead. I think the simple answer is to reload and wait (as we're supposed to) if you dont want them looking at you for the last minutes.
 
I have shot a few in the neck. Some seem to have died instantly, some take slightly longer, I also lost a Red Hind after a neck shot was taken. If I was to do nothing but neck shooting, I would use ballistic tips for the sole reason they will expand/deform/splinter break up, what ever you want to call it faster than soft point bullets. I do however only use soft point and would never restrict myself to a ballistic shot. I don't know (because I have never used) if I'd be happy using a ballistic tip on a Red/Sika although I'm sure they are more than upto the job, many on here no doubt use them, but it wouldn't be my choice.

Well done on the shot, you achieved your aim, shot/killed and had a carcass to take home.

TJ
 
A fairly typical reaction to said shot, Quite ethicle, BUT this kill or miss attitude about neck shots is wrong, they can still go wrong.
If you are to make a habit of head or neck shots then a bullet like a ballistic tip is the way to go.
 
Jon15,
I have had your exact experience but I think one factor is that with a general body shot we tend to wait the regulation 10mins before we approach so the life has left them. With a neck shot and an animal down I was more confident that it was dead so went straight forward. Mine remained "live" for a few minutes and I "finished it" with a knife, it had been hit with a BT and there was no spine at the point of impact so it was dead. I think the simple answer is to reload and wait (as we're supposed to) if you dont want them looking at you for the last minutes.


Just a quick question, and most emphatically not a dig, where did you stick the deer to kill it after the neck shot stopped it's heart?
 
apologies to Jon15 in case I hijack this thread now but I think he has what he wanted.

In answer to Grand Hubert. I stuck it in the atlas joint. The point I was really making was that the creature was not in any way brain dead and as such I felt compelled to do something further. Now a question in return. What makes you think that because the nerves are damaged that the heart will stop beating?

Once the nerves are damaged then the brain no longer has the ability to regulate the heart. However as long as the blood has oxygen and nutrients then the heart can continue indefinately by a self generated nervous reaction called "Ventricular Escape". I believe in most cases neck shots result in death because the lungs become paralysed and thus oxygen stops entering the blood, as such the animal may continue to be conscious until it passes out due to oxygen starvation. This is why I believe if you are too quick to a neck shot animal you may well witness clear signs of life. The other issue is that Ventricular Escape can stop at any time, (strangely called sudden death!!). I know this to be true as my labrador suffered total severance of her Vagus nerve resulting in the brain losing all control of her heart. As her lungs etc were all still working she lived for 3 weeks purely on the reflex of the heart before we had her fitted with a pacemaker, 10 years on shes fine. I suspect "instant" death neck shots are either high enough to damage the brain or damage the carotid arteries hence causing huge blood loss to the brain and almost instant unconciousness?? In principle I see no reason why a neck shot deer could not remain alive but paralysed if the only damage was to the spinal cord, the same can happen to people. Others views more than welcome
 
I'm finding this thread very informative and I'm really glad I read it. I always thought that neck shots would burst the arteries and the Deer would bleed out fast, but it appears this is often not the case?
 
apologies to Jon15 in case I hijack this thread now but I think he has what he wanted.

In answer to Grand Hubert. I stuck it in the atlas joint. The point I was really making was that the creature was not in any way brain dead and as such I felt compelled to do something further. Now a question in return. What makes you think that because the nerves are damaged that the heart will stop beating?

Once the nerves are damaged then the brain no longer has the ability to regulate the heart. However as long as the blood has oxygen and nutrients then the heart can continue indefinately by a self generated nervous reaction called "Ventricular Escape". I believe in most cases neck shots result in death because the lungs become paralysed and thus oxygen stops entering the blood, as such the animal may continue to be conscious until it passes out due to oxygen starvation. This is why I believe if you are too quick to a neck shot animal you may well witness clear signs of life. The other issue is that Ventricular Escape can stop at any time, (strangely called sudden death!!). I know this to be true as my labrador suffered total severance of her Vagus nerve resulting in the brain losing all control of her heart. As her lungs etc were all still working she lived for 3 weeks purely on the reflex of the heart before we had her fitted with a pacemaker, 10 years on shes fine. I suspect "instant" death neck shots are either high enough to damage the brain or damage the carotid arteries hence causing huge blood loss to the brain and almost instant unconciousness?? In principle I see no reason why a neck shot deer could not remain alive but paralysed if the only damage was to the spinal cord, the same can happen to people. Others views more than welcome

with the red deer i was shooting last winter , i found that the deer that i neck shot were mainly as you described instant death , by the time i got to the animal , maybe 7 -10 mins , i like them to expire in peace once im confident there down just in case , but in a couple of instances after the animal was shot and waited then went over to it , i could see the deer was paralised from the neck down , the hind in this case was breathing heavily and the eyes rolling about ! so i dispatched her humanely and carried on ,

not nice the first time you see it , but if your are doing alot of neck shooting get used to it , it will happen again !

cheers lee
 
Look at a heart/lung shot, the deer runs 50-100 yards, it was dying due to blood loss to the brain but wasn’t instantly killed. I have had lung shots animals fall and gasp for what seems like ages, that’s not nice either.

Unless you hit the brain and I am not advocating that, the neck/chest shot isn’t instantaneous, but does the animal suffer. We have all cut ourselves and the first time we notice is when we see the blood, we haven’t felt the actual cut – then we know enough to understand the extent and consequences of the injury.

[FONT=&quot]A neck shot animal will expire quickly, the eye is connected almost directly to the brain and so will remain active longer than other parts of the body.[/FONT]
 
Shootingduckdog is absolutely correct. Unless the deer is dead when I reach it I always stick the beast to end its suffering but again it can take a couple more minutes to bleed out and expire. Sometimes I am more comfortable shooting it again in the head if its safe to do so. I hate it when they suffer!
 
I have previously mentioned on threads that I regularly shoot sika in forestry with head/neck shots to avoid the inevitable hunt under the canopy of trees. On reflection the deer shot in the neck were more often than not dead, or at least appeared to be requiring no further action. On occasion however, they appeared to react to a touch on the eyeball but were otherwise unable to move other than perhaps uncontrolled muscular convulsion. I very much think it depends on the loss of blood supply to the brain as opposed to necessarily just shattering the spine and nerves carried in it. Recent changes in first aid training now suggest that there should be 20 chest compressions to every one breath. The reason being, to ensure that oxygenated blood is kept flowing to the brain. If the arteries/veins carrying this blood supply are damaged, surely that is what causes the animal to expire? I agree that simply breaking the neck wont on its own cause instant death. Just like twisting the necks of pheasants often results in the bird lying there blinking. Hence the reason I chap them on the head with a stick.

I would add though, that attempting to kill an animal by pushing a knife into the atlas joint takes a bit of skill and more often than not some of the knives we use are not really suited to the task, especially on the smaller deer. A stalker friend of mine used to suggest to novices that they practice whenever they can on a dead animal before attempting for real.

Is there no vets on this forum to give a clinical view, although the discussion is interesting.
 
A vet view then (based on basic anatomy and some interesting research: (forgive the lecture)
Sever the spine and paralysis will result below that level. The same happens with severe disc prolapse or abscesses and tumours in the spine. Dachshunds are prone to damage of the lumbar region, so the hind legs go. If the level of spinal damage is high enough, complete paralysis results. This does not mean death in all cases - as shown by Christopher Reeve whose accident fractured the first and second cervical vertebrae. It would have killed him though without a respirator. "C3, 4 & 5, keep the diaphragm alive" is an old medical mnemonic showing where the nerve control for breathing is located. So a break to the spine high up will kill - by paralysing breathing. Cutting the neck arteries will kill, but slowly, because of some supply to the brain is along the vertebral arteries which deer appear to have (fantastic place tinternet - as long as you know which are valid sites).
I suspect if the shot is high neck, ie through the 1st to 3rd cervical verterbrae, not only is there instant paralysis, but probably instant unconsciousness, followed very rapidly by death. The forces hitting this area will be high enough for spinal shock (a massive drop in blood pressure) and probably sending a shock wave across the brain. The cause of death will be similar to judicial hanging which is a massive shock to this area.
So there's the theory, I await to see it in practice, but knowing how small the vital target is within the neck...

As an aside with the comment above on chest compressions, the rate is about 120 a minute. How do you know what that is like without a watch? Hum a tune at 120 beats a minute. A lot of research has been done on this and the favoured tune is The Bee Gees Classic: "Ah, Ah, Ah, AH, Stayin' Alive, Stayin' Alive. You couldn't make it up!
 
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