Substandard home-loads.

Erik Hamburger

Well-Known Member
Against my better judgement I have ended up with a quantity of .243 WIN home-loads from a well-meaning friend, who insisted they would be so much more accurate than factory amo. Trying them out they do not group any better or worse than my preferred factory Federal Power-Shok 100Gr SP amo. And that doesn't surprise me as you can see, with the naked eye, and without using any measuring tools, that the bullet seating varies by some 2-3 mm, resulting in it being impossible to use some of those bullets, as the bolt cannot be fully closed on them. Hmm. The neck of the cases has been trimmed so irregular that the cases are also clearly of a different lengths, again with variations of some 1-2 mm.
Another also well-meaning friend, has also 'insisted' I learn home-loading and gave me a crash-course one afternoon. Once again the resulting amo was anything but of regular appearance.
Both explained to me the importance of measuring the neck-space (whatever that is...) which apparently comes down to hundreds of an Inch, only measurable with a specialist tool.

I find it quite impossible to reconcile that essential accuracy they deem necessary with the actual results of the amo they both produce. And I fear the worse if I would have the amount of Grains of powder checked.
So having drawn my own conclusions I will stick to factory amo...
 
Erik, with friends like this,you don't need....... My opinion, pass em' back....Reloading can be and is a great hobby in itself, 'do we reload to shoot or do we shoot to reload,:D but it has to be done correctly...
 
If they look substandard to the naked eye, thank your friend, take them and then take a pair of pliers and break them. I wouldn't fire them. Factory ammo is a known quantity. Hand loading can be good or bad, but very much depends on the individual concerned. Things like seating depth and overall length absolutely should be consistent, and certainly should be to the naked eye.
 
You can often get good results with some basic knowledge and by following a correct method. Shooting other people's home loads is not a good idea anyway but after that I don't think I would want to be anywhere near them when they fired their rifle!
 
Shooting other people's home loads is not a good idea.

This.

some years ago I acquired a full set of gear from a gentleman who was giving up stalking. It included his supply of home-loaded ammo. Fortunately, I already knew enough about reloading to be cautious, so I measured, weighed and dismantled it. "57 varieties" doesn't do it justice. The powder had to go of course, but the bullets were mostly salvageable, as was much of the brass. It was nevertheless rather disconcerting to think how much pressure my "new" rifle may have had to put up with during its time with its previous owner. No actual harm seems to have been done, however, as it is still with me and shooting well.
 
Erik, with friends like this,you don't need....... My opinion, pass em' back....Reloading can be and is a great hobby in itself, 'do we reload to shoot or do we shoot to reload,:D but it has to be done correctly...

Exactly this.

It's never a good idea to shoot or chamber anyone else's home loads. They have to be worked up for your rifle for safe pressures, and as you have picked out, to ensure headspace is safe. Anything over 3 thou could = case head separation, especially on brass fired many times. Someone who is safe and who knows what they're doing (as in properly knows their stuff) would be the very last person to offer anyone else their homeloads. My advice is to politely thank the giver but hand them back and stick to factory.

Home loading does and can provide very accurate ammunition because you can work loads up for your barrel that have the optimum barrel time and pressures for accuracy, but you need to start from the standpoint of knowledge, at the very least read something like the ABC of reloading. Easy to read and understand and only a few tools are really necessary.

A headspace comparator is useful and cheap and a dial gauge or digital vernier. A lee Loader is simple to use and can result in some very accurate rounds and is cheap. If you wanted to have a go, this might be a good way in, but never be tempted to accept other people's home loads developed for their rifles. That could end in tragedy for you both.
 
I seem to recall from my dsc 1 that there's a question regarding what to do when someone gives you some homeloads to try. The alleged correct answer was to test them on paper before deer. I argued with the assessors that the correct answer should be to decline the offer. I didn't get far with persuading them to change it

Novice
 
The fact that your friend hasn't even taken enough care to ensure the seating depths are consistent would have me running for the hills! Imagine if he's demonstrated a similar lack of care with the charge weights . . . . :eek:

Some folk need to stay well away from reloading. Both for their own safety and that of others
 
I seem to recall from my dsc 1 that there's a question regarding what to do when someone gives you some homeloads to try. The alleged correct answer was to test them on paper before deer. I argued with the assessors that the correct answer should be to decline the offer. I didn't get far with persuading them to change it

Novice

They'd changed it when I did my DSC1 this year . . . .
 
Against my better judgement I have ended up with a quantity of .243 WIN home-loads from a well-meaning friend, who insisted they would be so much more accurate than factory amo. Trying them out they do not group any better or worse than my preferred factory Federal Power-Shok 100Gr SP amo. And that doesn't surprise me as you can see, with the naked eye, and without using any measuring tools, that the bullet seating varies by some 2-3 mm, resulting in it being impossible to use some of those bullets, as the bolt cannot be fully closed on them. Hmm. The neck of the cases has been trimmed so irregular that the cases are also clearly of a different lengths, again with variations of some 1-2 mm.
Another also well-meaning friend, has also 'insisted' I learn home-loading and gave me a crash-course one afternoon. Once again the resulting amo was anything but of regular appearance.
Both explained to me the importance of measuring the neck-space (whatever that is...) which apparently comes down to hundreds of an Inch, only measurable with a specialist tool.

I find it quite impossible to reconcile that essential accuracy they deem necessary with the actual results of the amo they both produce. And I fear the worse if I would have the amount of Grains of powder checked.
So having drawn my own conclusions I will stick to factory amo...

I think you can add to your wisdoms,

  • Do not accept anybody else's homeloads

For certain people, their factory ammo is accurate enough and not worth the time and effort to develop a load. It is however an extension of the initial leisure pursuit of shooting. There are circumstances when I am time poor and purchasing factory ammo is the most viable option for a particular calibre, but on the whole, home loading can often produce much better results than factory ammo. If you are naturally meticulous with any task then there is no reason why home loading will not work for you.
 
I've never purchased factory ammo in a rifle calibre so I wouldn't know which brands you are suggesting. But when I am time poor and need to buy a box of pistol ammo I see it as I have some free empty cases to reload so all is not entirely lost. Then there is no reloading to do on a muzzle loader except weigh your powder charges and stuff a patched ball or a bullet down the front.
 
I've never purchased factory ammo in a rifle calibre so I wouldn't know which brands you are suggesting. But when I am time poor and need to buy a box of pistol ammo I see it as I have some free empty cases to reload so all is not entirely lost. Then there is no reloading to do on a muzzle loader except weigh your powder charges and stuff a patched ball or a bullet down the front.


Lapua for one. Moral, be careful what you feed your rifle / pistol, wherever it comes from!
 
At the range a few weeks ago, sitting at bench next to a guy with a new to him .308. The first 2 shots sounded strange and the RO stopped all shooting to see why.
An examination of the fired cases showed a greasy slick back to within 1/2" of the primer pocket.
When asked about the cartridges he said he didn't know what powder or load he had as he just used what came with the rifle as he had been told it was ok by the seller! End of his session!
Go figure that.
 
three things strike me here:

1) Other people's home loads are for their rifle, definitely don't use them in yours

2) you don't need a lab and micrometer to make accurate ammo, I loaded with a lee loader and a scoop for 2 years, was better than factory in my rifle.

3) what did their home loads and their rifle's shoot like?


I once bought a rifle that came with some high end ammo (homeloaded)
clear ID on components and some spare components to confirm.

I weighed all rounds and they were within 1-1.5gr if each other as whole rounds, which is actually very good for a large case cartridge (less than 1% variable)

Against my better judgement I shot some, they were OK accuracy wise if a little punchy on the recoil and MV

Until one of the case webbings let go...... was left with the bulk of the empty case to remove as the head came out with the bolt!

numerous firings, hot loads, large calibre/cartridge with a lot of powder....

no doubt they were accurately made but with questionable attention to brass condition
 
I disagree with the carte blanche statement of "never use someone else's home loads". I believe it's more of an assessment of character and competence. There are a number of people who I know and we are more than happy to use each other's ammo, and there are those that I wouldn't.

After firing the first round of a friend's Rugger Blackhawk, I asked him what load he was using. He stated that it was his normal load (fill up the cart case) and hot his hot load (fill up car case, compress the fill with a pencil and top up). I didn't take a second shot.

A went along with a friend as he was wanting to buy a second hand scope from a reputable gun shop. Whilst there I asked if they had any 25-06 ammo in, they said that they had 6 boxes of Federal 100gr BT, great I said, I'll take the lot. Some other customers seeing the ammo asked if they could take a look as they have never seen 25-06 before. On opening one of the boxes it became obvious that they were in fact a mixture of all sorts. I asked where they had come from and the shop keeper said they came in with a rifle that a guy had stopped shooting. When I showed him the ammo he said that they'll be okay as the this guy was an experienced shooter and for what he was selling them for it was worth it just for the brass! Needless to say I didn't take them and left annoyed that he didn't make it clear it was second hand ammo in the first place.
 
There is an old axiom in handloading circles: Never shoot anyone else's handloads. It still holds true.~Muir

This is sensible advice: I once accepted a groupsworth of hand-loaded cartridges from a respected and senior rifleman on a range, to try in my rifle ('Try a couple of these, lad' etc.) After the first shot, the primer fell out on extraction and the ejector had to be coaxed back out of its hole in the bolt-face.
Subsequently, I prepared some strategies to enable such (clearly well-intentioned) offers to be declined in future without causing offence. Not from that chap of course - I could simply refer him back to that incident!

I disagree with the carte blanche statement of "never use someone else's home loads". I believe it's more of an assessment of character and competence. There are a number of people who I know and we are more than happy to use each other's ammo, and there are those that I wouldn't.

However, like FlyingFelix. I found it slightly perpelexing when I first read it many years ago as it seemed to forbid me from firing a friend's rifle using his handloads. Or, indeed, my father from using the cartridges I make him for his rifle.

My understanding now is:
1. Don't use handloaded cartridges in rifles other than those for which the load hase been worked up (exception might be loads well below max pressure - lead target-loads in pistol-calibre carbines, for example)
2. For the same reason, don't use other people's 'pet load' data without working up to it in your rifle.
3. Don't shoot any handloads unless you're happy that the person who made them is competent. Apply the same rigorous standard of assessement to all, including yourself.

Does that seem a fair summary?
 
I got into reloading when I could not source my favourite ammunition and had to buy some extortionately priced stuff instead. So I bought a Lee reloading kit (and several books on reloading, the most informative of which I found to be the Lee manual, if you ignore the blatant advertising) and have had some startlingly good results with it. When developing a load I always do a "ladder test", always consulting a reloading manual or Quickload for a safe starting load. I have always managed to find an accuracy node without having to resort to blown primers or split cases.

On buying new cases for reloading I always full length re-size the cases and then trim them to length. It would appear that your friend has neglected to trim to length. Only after they have been fire formed do I start neck sizing, but I still trim to length every time.

I must say that it is not only reloads that can have problems, when sighting in a friends new thermal imaging sight on his Remington .223 we found that the very well known ammunition we were using was producing fired cases with severely deformed primers.

I do reload for a couple of friends, but in no way is this a commercial enterprise and I would not dream of reloading for someone without having first done a load check to their approval, with them present.

As you have been already advised Erik, I would disassemble the homeloads you have been given and go back to either making your own, which I find very rewarding, or to the very accurate factory ammunition which is available these days.

Simon
 
I started home loading for the fun of home loading and the satisfaction of having made the builit that shot the deer etc etc.

Can say i know a great deal about it and sadly like many i dont have much oportunity to play with loads on a range, but what i can say is using once fired brass and a Lee loadrer I managed to knock out some rounds that are defo better than my factory Federal Power Shock for my .243

Consistantly better groups over 100 150 and 200m

However with my 308 I get prety much the same groups with my Sako Hammer heads as i do with my home loads.

On the up side I dont get worse grouping with home loads :D


Personaly Ill stick to re using the brass 2 X then binning it for new. It just seems logical to me that using brass over and over again will affect its properties.

Just using the micromiter screw on my Lee press I have had no problem seating the buillits to a consistant length. I keep a factory Norma BT as a template and follow that

OK I was a time served tool maker and obviously have a prety good engernearing background, but I didnt reely find it that hard to home load?

But it is a destinct advantage owning a Vernier gauge and a micromiter.

ATB
 
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