Expanding rifle ammo/bullets to be S1 (again!) moving closer to reality?

Orion

Well-Known Member
House of Lords latest amendments to the Policing and Crime Bill includes these of interest to sporting shooters:

1) A proposal to change the blanket 'ban' on expanding to only apply to ammo used in pistols. Not sure where that would leave the .357/.38 carbine users?

2) Automatic extension of expired certificates for 8 weeks if police haven’t issued a new one.

Apparently they have government support as they originated from a Conservative Peer, Baroness Williams.

They are contained in this document: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0055/17055-I(c).pdf

Labour peer amendments are somewhat more probematic for shooters. For full-cost recovery of fees (must have been living under a rock as it's already in place!), and automatic revocation of the FAC of anyone who has a firearm stolen from them and a lifetime ban on firearm ownership imposed, all without any form of court hearing!

They are contained in this document: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0055/17055-I.pdf

Both documents can be searched under the term 'firearm' to view the relevant sections Thanks as always to Gaz Corfield for letting it be known. https://ukshootingnews.wordpress.co...ndments-make-expanding-ammo-changes/#comments
 
and automatic revocation of the FAC of anyone who has a firearm stolen from them and a lifetime ban on firearm ownership imposed, all without any form of court hearing!????

How stupid is this

Thers a limit to what can be done to secure a firearm. If say the rifel is stolen but the bolt remains secure then its purile to punish the FAC holder


 
Every member of the police that I have spoken to, has said. "If they want it, they will get it, no matter how it is secured". A local chap, the son of a policeman(retired, if they ever do), had his cabinet stolen, even though it meant demolishing the wall it was bolted to. I think it contained just shotguns. It was found submerged in water but the inner compartment, containing some £2,000+, was unopened.
 
and automatic revocation of the FAC of anyone who has a firearm stolen from them and a lifetime ban on firearm ownership imposed, all without any form of court hearing!????

How stupid is this

Thers a limit to what can be done to secure a firearm. If say the rifel is stolen but the bolt remains secure then its purile to punish the FAC holder



We should not discriminate on whether the bolt was removed or not; some firearms it is impractical to remove the bolt (10/22, lever action etc). It should just come down to has the owner taken reasonable precautions to prevent unauthorised access, and had the FAC holder posed or likely to to pose a risk to public safety? Funnily enough the law we have at present.
 
I am surprised they haven't tagged on life imprisonment too:eek:

and automatic revocation of the FAC of anyone who has a firearm stolen from them and a lifetime ban on firearm ownership imposed, all without any form of court hearing!????

How stupid is this

Thers a limit to what can be done to secure a firearm. If say the rifel is stolen but the bolt remains secure then its purile to punish the FAC holder




They are proposed amendments from Labour Peers, did you really expect anything sensible?
 
House of Lords latest amendments to the Policing and Crime Bill includes these of interest to sporting shooters:


Labour peer amendments are somewhat more probematic for shooters. For full-cost recovery of fees (must have been living under a rock as it's already in place!), and automatic revocation of the FAC of anyone who has a firearm stolen from them and a lifetime ban on firearm ownership imposed, all without any form of court hearing!

Hopefully this amendment will not be carried but it is a warning to all shooters not to support the Labour party under current circumstances, especially with Diane Abbott as their shadow Home Secretary. Blaming the innocent victims of crime? The crooks must love it!
 
1) A proposal to change the blanket 'ban' on expanding to only apply to ammo used in pistols. Not sure where that would leave the .357/.38 carbine users?
The last box of handgun ammunition I bought(Hollow point) was labelled: "38/357 For Police"
I was never sure if it was for police to shoot people with, or for people to shoot police.
 
I also didnt like the line about;

The Firearms Act 1968 is amended as follows.(2) After section 43 (power of Secretary of State to alter fees) insert—“43A Full recovery of costsThe Secretary of State must ensure that a fee payable under this Actrecovers the full cost to the public purse of issuing (or renewing,varying or replacing, as the case may be) a certificate under this Act.””

Licence cost hikes incoming perhaps?

Whilst I can semi-understand where they are coming from with banning people for life who have firearms stolen (IE; some muppet leaving a gun in plain sight on the back of a car seat and it getting nicked. Clearly hadnt taken reasonable precaution in that instance) unfortunately I suspect the reality will just be that if you are unlucky enough to get burgled and they get into your safe the government would rather just yank your ticket with no right to appeal, or a hefty cost to do so.

As JTO said, if they want it they will get it. Sadly it feels like this applies to the crooks trying to get at your guns AND to the government trying to take licences away!
 
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I also didnt like the line about;

The Firearms Act 1968 is amended as follows.(2) After section 43 (power of Secretary of State to alter fees) insert—“43A Full recovery of costsThe Secretary of State must ensure that a fee payable under this Actrecovers the full cost to the public purse of issuing (or renewing,varying or replacing, as the case may be) a certificate under this Act.””

Licence cost hikes incoming perhaps?

It won't go anywhere because it's already in force through the firearms fees system. The police have a long way to go to impliment known cost savings in the issue/variation of certificates before any further increases can be proposed.
 
House of Lords latest amendments to the Policing and Crime Bill includes these of interest to sporting shooters:

1) A proposal to change the blanket 'ban' on expanding to only apply to ammo used in pistols. Not sure where that would leave the .357/.38 carbine users?

The present rules don't apply to levergun shooters whose ammo must be flat-nose for tubular magazines. There is a blanket exemption already in force. (Otherwise such FAC holders would be unable to buy factory ammunition in many cases, there being no suitable non-expanding bullet loads available.)
 
Every member of the police that I have spoken to, has said. "If they want it, they will get it, no matter how it is secured". A local chap, the son of a policeman(retired, if they ever do), had his cabinet stolen, even though it meant demolishing the wall it was bolted to. I think it contained just shotguns. It was found submerged in water but the inner compartment, containing some £2,000+, was unopened.

How true! Look at how many post office etc ATMs are ripped from exterior walls. If the b*st*rds can do that, what chance a gun cabinet? Anyway, the crims know that firearms have to be locked up and are unavailable for home defence. Who is going to fail to hand their cabinet keys over if a pair of knife wielding thugs are threatening the wife and family?
 
anything being proposed for firearms officers who leave bags of MP5's on the roof of their car and drive off?
 
The present rules don't apply to levergun shooters whose ammo must be flat-nose for tubular magazines. There is a blanket exemption already in force. (Otherwise such FAC holders would be unable to buy factory ammunition in many cases, there being no suitable non-expanding bullet loads available.)

I'd have to query that Laurie as a rumour I've never seen substantiated in print. The safety aspect doesn't legalise 'expanding' ammo as flat-nosed FMJ fodder is available in ammunition form, and as 'missiles' for reloading.

Expanding pistol missiles remain S51af at auction, and you need a specific S1 quarry use or a collector condition to bid for it. I'm not sure if many RFD's actually stock exp. pistol any more.:confused:
 
The present rules don't apply to levergun shooters whose ammo must be flat-nose for tubular magazines. There is a blanket exemption already in force. (Otherwise such FAC holders would be unable to buy factory ammunition in many cases, there being no suitable non-expanding bullet loads available.)

I'm not being arsey but I would very much like to see some sort of official statement to this effect. I would like to try some of the Hornady Leverlution (sp?) bullets but I can't find any written authority to do so for target shooting. Do you have a source for this?
 
I'm not being arsey but I would very much like to see some sort of official statement to this effect. I would like to try some of the Hornady Leverlution (sp?) bullets but I can't find any written authority to do so for target shooting. Do you have a source for this?
Read the HO guidelines. Its in there
 
The present rules don't apply to levergun shooters whose ammo must be flat-nose for tubular magazines. There is a blanket exemption already in force. (Otherwise such FAC holders would be unable to buy factory ammunition in many cases, there being no suitable non-expanding bullet loads available.)

Not sure where you got that snippet of information from. I can readily buy factory ammunition for my lever gun at any of the RFD's local to me anytime.
 
Not sure where you got that snippet of information from. I can readily buy factory ammunition for my lever gun at any of the RFD's local to me anytime.

Brimfire that may be the case now but at the time that the exemption that Laurie was referring to was published the only jacketed flat point bullets available for use in lever action rifles with tubular magazines were classed as expanding. They were either hollow point or semi jacketed soft points. Plated lead or FMJ weren't readily available in the U.K. at that time.
 
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