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Thread: Fox....variation re definition between forces

  1. #1

    Fox....variation re definition between forces

    TVP apparently say fox comes under vermin so do not condition your FAC for fox.
    If I went to shoot in another forces area..say Surrey or Hampshire and they dont agree that fox is classed as vermin and state that your rifle/ FAC needs to be conditioned.....where do you stand

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by deerly departed View Post
    TVP apparently say fox comes under vermin so do not condition your FAC for fox.
    If I went to shoot in another forces area..say Surrey or Hampshire and they dont agree that fox is classed as vermin and state that your rifle/ FAC needs to be conditioned.....where do you stand
    Page 123 of the guidance notes.........!!


    123
    Quarry Shooting

    Note that the absence of a calibre in the table below
    should not preclude it being considered by the Police. The purpose of this table is as a guide to establish initial "good reason".

    Paragraphs 13.9 and 13.16-13.18 should be read in conjunction with this table.

    Cartridges
    Muzzle energy (ft lb)
    Vermin & ground game and other small quarry
    3
    Fox and other medium quarry
    4
    Deer and other large quarry
    5
    Dangerous Game
    6
    .177-.25 Air Rifles (FAC)
    1

    .22 RF

    .17 Mach 2

    .17 HMR

    .22 WMR

    .17 Remington
    2

    .22 Hornet
    2

    .204
    >12 ft lb

    100-200

    650-700

    800-900
    Yes
    No

    (Yes for .17 Remington & HMR, .22 Hornet and WMR also .22 RF in certain circumstance (see 13.25))
    No
    No
    .17 Remington2

    .218 Bee

    .22 Hornet2

    .22-.250

    .220 Swift

    .222 Remington

    5.56mm/.223

    .243

    6mm PPC

    6mm/.244
    800-900

    600-800

    650-700

    1,350-1,500

    1,300-1,900

    900-1,000

    1,000-1,400

    1,600-2,000

    1,300-1,800

    1,800-2,100
    No

    (Yes for .17 Remington & HMR, .22 Hornet and WMR)
    Yes
    No7

    (Yes for Muntjac and Chinese water deer in England and Wales with .222 and greater, .243 & 6mm/.244)

    Yes in Scotland for Roe Deer with .222 and greater.)
    No
    .243

    6mm/.244

    .25-06

    6.5mm x 55/.256

    .257 Weatherby

    .264

    .270

    7mm/.275

    .284

    .30-06

    .303

    7.62mm x 51/.308

    .444 Marlin

    .45-70
    1,600-2,000

    1,800-2,100

    2,000-2,400

    1,800-2,400

    2,400-2,900

    1,600-2,900

    2,450-2,700

    2,200-2,400

    2,250-2,800

    2,600-3,000

    1,900-2,400

    2,400-2,600

    2,500-3,000

    1,600-2,400
    No
    No

    (Yes for .243 & 6mm/.244)

    (see also paragraph 13.25)
    Yes

    (but see paragraph 13.30-13.34)


    Tim.243
    Stalking is very much like going to the night club

    The more times you go, there is always a chance of going home with one

    You can always tell an Essex Boy, just you cant tell him much...




  3. #3
    tell them to stop being idiots , vermin is vermin end of...
    .22lr, .22lr .222, .223, .243, .270, 12g fac, 12g, 12g, 12g, 12g
    and still growing.....

  4. #4
    Why not just get AOLQ, that would cover it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by paul k View Post
    Why not just get AOLQ, that would cover it.
    thats what TVP condition with primary (ie Deer) and AOLQ if all you shoot is Fox I would expect Fox and AOLQ
    "Politicians must be allowed to panic. They need activity. It is their substitute for achievement"
    "'The matter is under consideration' means we have lost the file. 'The matter is under active consideration' means we are trying to find the file."

  6. #6
    One of my good mates who was with TV had both Deer and AOLQ and Fox and AOLQ on his FAC for His 30-06, 243 and 20 Prac respectively.

    Ian.

  7. #7
    There's always inconsistancies. Even now that the college of police state that all forces must be uniform and follow home office guidelines, some still don't listen.... HO guidelines basically say that the initial quarry species given for a license grant is just that, initial good reason...and that after that, no condition should limit what quarry species you can shoot ie. any other lawful quarry.
    My licence reads: The firearms shall be used for the shooting of deer and any other lawful quarry, subject to the legality of the calibre.
    I have .22lr, .22wmr, .222, .243 and .30-06. That's how Sussex do things.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
    thats what TVP condition with primary (ie Deer) and AOLQ if all you shoot is Fox I would expect Fox and AOLQ
    Yes, this ^^

    I'm in Hampshire and my condition is "Deer/Fox and AOLQ" as I stated on appplication that the primary use was deer with some foxing, and then target shooting as a tertiary use (as I am a member of a TR shooting club). So I got the condition above plus a separate one for target use.

    Do you have AOLQ on your cert? If so then you should be covered.
    If you're shooting badly, you need a new gun. If you're shooting well then you deserve a new gun.

  9. #9
    Any conditions are to indicate good reason NOT limit what quarry you can shoot

    if you get a 243 for deer there is nothing to stop you shooting foxes or crows with it, so long as deer is your primary good reason

  10. #10
    Reading the guidance, I'd say than unless the condition says ".....shall ONLY be used for....." then you can also do anything else you want with it within reason.
    It is not the job of the police to decide who may or may not shoot particular legal quarry animals and the guidance is explicit that "Forces must ensure that where additional conditions are applied to certificates that they are kept to a minimum and are only applied where they are both proportionate and necessary."
    I can't imagine how it could be proportionate AND necessary to permit an applicant to own a rifle for hunting and then claim that the police are entitled to govern what he may or may not hunt beyond the provisions of the relevant game and wildlife legislation.
    Is there any case history on this?

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