Soft points and handloads

Brithunter

Well-Known Member
So I get a phone cal from the Firearms Licensing Officers deputy this morning. No you cannot have the replacement .270 rifle as you have not brought enough ammunition over the last year. So I point out that I hand load, "yes but you have not brought any heads" points out again there is no such thing as a bullet head and no I have not brought any recently as I brought a large quantity when Howitzer closed up. " how many was that?" Ohh about 2800. They're not on your Surrey certificate! .................

Nope they won't be. This was before they had to be entered onto the certificate. So they send an FEO to count how many 0.277" bullets I have in stock, how much ammunition in .270. He never once asked about Non expanding and we all know your not allowed to use expanding for general practice. Only zeroing on ranges. Or mentioned the fact that yes I have four .270 rifles but am only allowed to shoot one of them!

He even asked about the reciept :lol: :rolleyes: Hmmmm let's see how many of you keep receipts for reloading components for more than 10 years? Oh then he says you have four .270 rifles already ....................... errr yes. Well you cannot have another one :banghead: we have been through this on the phone then on the variation and again with the enquirey officer :doh:. One of them has quite a worn bore so it's being re-barreled into .280. I asked for them to change the calibre on this rifle from .270 to .280. Put it on a temp permit so I can take it the the smiths and leave it wit him for the work then lick it up as a .280................................. simples. But no so on Saturday I take the barreled action to the smiths to leave with him. the I have to fill in another form for another one for one wiat god knows how many months with no licence again whilst they think about this one and they wonde why Lincolnshire Police ahd a finance problem :eek: Couldn't be because they waste man hours ad money on stupidity like this could it?

One for one variation no increase in weapons as they put it yet over two months and three FEO visits :banghead:

So to you relaoders/handloaders................................... careful as they might try this one on you as well. Not using enough ammunition. Then they wonder why I don't trust them :doh: you can tell when they lie ........................................... their lips move.
 
Phone call this morning from the FEO, seems that the numbers have pacified them somewhat. What that means :confused: I have no idea butt he chances of seeing my certificate back to make the show on the 10th is about zilch to zero. God only knows what next years renewal will be like :rolleyes: :banghead:

Oh I didn't mention the three milsurp ammo boxes in storage on here. these were what I used to have in stock before She decided that I didn't need them. Amongst them are two 100 bricks of Kynoch ammunition, one in 30-30 the other in 7.92mm but she says I can only have 10 rounds of any calibre collectable ammunition even though I had a collectors condition on my licence for years. Further to that as she has decreed that I can only shoot a few of my rifles the rest are for collection purpose only. There is no need to have any ammunition for those that cannot be shot and those I can shoot she had reduced the ammo holdings so that I was in illegal possession of ammunition and component bullets. so the hard to get stuff like 6.5x53R, 6.5x54MS ( as she listed it as a 6.5x55 instead of just 6.5mm as it was) 7.92mm sporting ammunition the couple of boxes of factory Norma 9.3x57mm and the extra 303 military MkV and all the 8mm bullets have to go into storage or as she suggested I surrender it for destruction :-|. Perhaps it will explain why I don't trust them any further than I can throw this house.

Due to it's scarcity at times I had over 2400 rounds of 303 in stock includign a couple of boxes of Kynoch 215grain RN soft pint bullets for reloading. I have five .303 rifles now but then I had seven of them.
 
Brit: just a suggestion but why don't you try for an RFD? You seem to do a good deal of work on rifles so something along the lines of: 'restoration, repair, load development and test firing of rifles and shotguns' should cover it? As long as the RFD wasn't overly restrictive on numbers that might make a difference? Or, you could take it all down in writing and appeal the hell out of it.

Sounds like you're having a horrible time though. Don't know why they should be concerned about legitimate collectors or what difference it makes if the rifles are shot or not.

My sympathies sir.
 
I would go down the RFD road. You do have a lot of ammo and the police alarm bells must be ringing.

I am not suggesting you are anything but an upstanding memeber of society, but I do bet you would tick a few boxes on a phycological profile.
 
Brit: just a suggestion but why don't you try for an RFD?

Probably because they would then try and hammer him for not carrying out a business, lack of transactions etc. And anyway, why should he? The Firearms Act covers collectors of firearms - including those who wish to shoot their collection from time to time - and in other areas of the country they have very little problem in pursuing their interest. It appears that Lincs police are the problem, not Brithunter.

Are you a member of the HBSA? Might they not help? http://www.hbsa-uk.isonlinehere.com/
 
Thank you Orion we had a meeting here with Helen Wilkie and Frank Palanski who are the licensing officer and her deputy to try and sort out the mess about two years ago now after they were being stupid after my moving to Lincolnshire. They were very unhappy to discover that Chris Smith of the HBSA committee here to meet them. Their intention was to badger, brow beat and hound two against one but it didn't happen. When for the umpteenth time it was pointed out that they were not following the guidelines nor the law and again Wilkie insisting she was Chris passed the HO guidance across to her with the words show us where is says so in here. t-Their response was to get up and leave in a huff. This was the second visit of Mr smith as on the first the Police just didn't show up. When I phoned them and asked where they were. Oh we can't make it. No apology nothing. I complained and was told they phoned and left a message. Lies as there was no call and no message I also asked when this call came and Frank says Oh this morning. So they cancel an arranged appointment with 20 minutes notice. Mr Smith had driven about 100-130 miles to get here.

Oh they don't like me that's for sure. I won't roll over and just say OK then. I am expected to abide by the rules and law yet they seem to think it does not apply to them.

Oh I still have the , now, empty wooden crate that the 1248 HXP 69 .303 came in. That's long ago been shot off. I have a few HXP left but that came from a different source. The crate was full and sealed when I brought it and that was my second one. I used to shoot a lot more than it's possible to do now. Not that many ranges here abouts :cry:. Hopefully the new 100 meter one will be operational before the winter. It's only 10 mile up the road and is badly needed. I cannot understand how some of you manage to get by with so small ammunition allowances. On a range trip if I don't expand at least 60 plus rounds then it's a very poor day. I take a few rifles so I can shoot a few through each and allow time to cool and try new loads, different bullets, powders and to improve on the precison of the groups. On a good quite range day it can be a couple of hundred shot. Was running low at home on .303 so got another ammo box from storage, 576 rounds of that now in the cabinet. Oh if your wondering we converted 3 shotgun cabinets with welded in shelves to store my ammo and they can hold quite a bit.......................... :lol:


Originally they tried to push me to become an RFD but ti was not somethign I wanted to get involved in at that time. Later when the subject was broached again they now want a business plan to show it will provide over 50% of my income :-| and they want 24 hr CCTV. Red Care and I will be limited to less firearms holding as an RFD than I have in my collection.................................................. however they are not being obstructive?..

The cost of what they're demanding runs into many thousands of pounds. The alarm system linked to the CCTV without installation we were quoted around £6000 the monitoring was £1200 per annum. Without the CCTV installed the alarm was just under £2000. Then the firearms storage facility and workshop would have to be constructed and that would cost somewhere between £20,000 and £30,000 and would require planning permission. Our wood/concrete sheet old workshop is not suitable. To set up as an RFD here would cost in all around £40,000-£50,000 which I do not have plus the turn over to make it financially viable would be rather high and I doubt we have the catchment area out here to make it viable..... Add to this that my knowledge of shotguns is not enough to enable me to sell them or service/repair them 3/4's of potential custom has been lost right off the bat. I could not try and sell to someone and not know what I am on about .................... sorry just not Me.


As for ammunition holdings after the expanding ammunition debacle and total farce we are left with my ammunition holding on my certificate will all calibres added in was around 17,000 rounds and have always brought in bulk. where I lived 7mm was not that common especially for hand loaders so I ordered and brought 500 Hornady 139 Gr BTSP bullets. When it was decided that all expanding bullets had to be kept securely as they are sooooooooooooooooooooooooo dangerous I had in the region of 2200 assorted .308 bullets in weights varying from 110-220 grains, in 0.310", 0.311" and 0.31" I had bullets in weights of 125 gr,130 Gr, 150 Gr, 174 Gr, 180 Gr, 200 Gr and 215 gr. 0.284 consisted of 139 gr, 150 Gr, 154 gr, 173 gr and 175 gr. I have brought back bullets from France and the US when travelling, customs are only interested if it's within your holding limit and any duty due. Dover got quite snotty when I stopped to declare two boxes of 9.3mm Expanding bullets (150 in total count) said it was wasting their time and clear off :eek:. And Gatwick just asked if my certificate covered the amount? .............................. yes! they then gave me my rifle case and waived me through.
 
Probably because they would then try and hammer him for not carrying out a business, lack of transactions etc. And anyway, why should he? The Firearms Act covers collectors of firearms - including those who wish to shoot their collection from time to time - and in other areas of the country they have very little problem in pursuing their interest. It appears that Lincs police are the problem, not Brithunter.

Are you a member of the HBSA? Might they not help? http://www.hbsa-uk.isonlinehere.com/

Hi Orion, I wasn't suggesting that BH was the problem. Merely trying to offer an alternative solution. If you look at the post I also mention that he seems to do a number of repairs etc. He will know his circumstances better than I.

So, with respect, wind your neck in.
 
Hi Orion, I wasn't suggesting that BH was the problem. Merely trying to offer an alternative solution. If you look at the post I also mention that he seems to do a number of repairs etc. He will know his circumstances better than I.

So, with respect, wind your neck in.

And with respect to you I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting that BH was the problem - so maybe we can both start a neck winding in competition. :lol:

I've had previous personal experience of the way that certain unenlightened forces operate regarding both FAC holders and RFDs, and know that they will use any excuse to try and shut you down. The 'lack of turnover/transactions' is a ploy that was been used on my own business when dealing with specialist S.5 firearms that, by their very nature, had a very, very limited market. Lincs appear to be operating in the same way so there would be, (as BH has said), no point in going down that route.
 
Sounds like you're having a horrible time though. Don't know why they should be concerned about legitimate collectors or what difference it makes if the rifles are shot or not.

My sympathies sir.[/QUOTE]
Don`t they just love an easy target?
I bet there`s more experienced stalkers out there that know the firearms laws better than the FEO`s do.
basil.
 
Thank you all for your support. this is not new and has been going on for over 5 years now. I assume they thin they can wear me down :rolleyes: fat chance. Another example of their underhanded nature is that I arranged a site meeting about 6 weeks before I moved here so discuss the security and stuff due to the quantity of firearms I had I thought it wise. They sent two FEO's yep two. Seems their way of working that the can bully you into accepting their ways. Well it was pretty much a waste of time as they were being stupid even then. But anyway Surrey had sent a summary of my file up to them and they had it with them. Then about five months after I had moved the FEO turned up on the doorstep saying that Surrey had been looking for em as they didn't know I had moved and had no idea where i was no my firearms. :confused: Strange that as I notified them by FAX printed it off and sent them that by first close post as well so they had it twice. Lincs then sad they woud revoke my certifiates as i ahd not infomred them i ahd move.

How dummb can you get. the certificate plainly state that you must inform the issuing authority, Surrey, which I did. So i fires up the ole puter calls up the fax prgramme and prints off a copy of the fax....................................... result ..................................... splutter splutter. You will be hearing from us.

And I did they wanted me to accept an official caution for not informing them of my move. So a letter goes off point out he date of the site meeting the copy of the fax to Surrey and telling them to get on their bikes. At that initial meeting one of the FEO's says you can't have all this "I wont allow it". It seems they are still trying to full fill his ideas. Now I will phone them at Nettleham tomorrow morning and get an update of the state of play now. If there is no certificate coming in the next day or so then letters of complaint to the Chief Constable, the Firearms licensing officer, my MP, the HO and if I can find out who is responsible for the financing of Lincs Police them too to point out the wasting of public funds. I shall also seek council for the shooting organisation that I belong to and see what the chances of dragging her sorry arse into the small claims court for lose of amenities, cancelled stalking outings, storage costs and liable depending if I can get the witness to cooperate. Not Lincs Police that won't get anywhere as they will pass the buck from piller to post, no the Licensing Officer herself. it's a long shot but something needs to be done now to sort this mess out.

Ahh Zaitsev, I normally only work on my own guns.In the past I have done a trigger job on a Whitworth Mauser .243 for the old club treasurer. A lot of the time because I like older guns it's the only way to get them done as real gunsmiths especially rifle smiths are not that common here. Shotguns are another matter entirely. One smith I spoke to about the re-barrel of the BSA model D was not aware that due to the way they were overtightened in the American plant unless certain precautions were taken the receiver ring could crack or split when you try to unscrew the barrel. As mine was fitted by BSA there was less of a risk but to avoid any risk I cut the shoulder away on the barrel shank with a parting tool to relieve the pressure and the barrel wound off easily by hand. He also din't know they had a square form thread. he is a fine smith I understand but usually works on Remington's which today means the 700. Sadly the old smiths I would have go to first have now retired so time is running out to get these old jobs done by those who are familiar with them. Powells of Reigate used to employ a good gunsmith who could build very good target rifles on a number of actions or rifles. One he used to use as the basis was the Swiss Schmidt Rubin and P-14's and p-17's as well as Mauser 98's were bread and butter to him along wiht the No4 Enfield. he could also re-tighten an English SxS so it was tight on the face. Time the extractors a good general gunsmith sadly retire quite a few years now.
 
And with respect to you I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting that BH was the problem - so maybe we can both start a neck winding in competition. :lol:

I've had previous personal experience of the way that certain unenlightened forces operate regarding both FAC holders and RFDs, and know that they will use any excuse to try and shut you down. The 'lack of turnover/transactions' is a ploy that was been used on my own business when dealing with specialist S.5 firearms that, by their very nature, had a very, very limited market. Lincs appear to be operating in the same way so there would be, (as BH has said), no point in going down that route.


No bother mate. Neck fully wound in:D

Sorry to hear that you too have been through the wringer. The victimisation of law abiding shooters/rfds/collectors really gets my goat. Good to hear that people are standing up for their legitimate rights.

Cheers

G
 
BH, You must have the patience of a Saint - I'd have been creating a total sh*tstorm if I was in your position. :mad::evil:

Not wanting to teach Granny how to suck anything here but....................

Registered delivery and photocopies of every piece of correspondence is the only way to go when dealing with these types. Have you actually had it in writing from them why they are subjecting you to such draconian conditions? If the head of the firearms dept is unwilling to state why they have inflicted you with this situation which is having such a detrimental effect on your enjoyment of your chosen lawful interest/sport, then the Chief Constable might need a letter and an official complaint if neccessary. The only reason I can think that they might try to apply is the 'public safety' aspect, but in that case why have they issued you with the FAC in the first place - the security and 'good reason' criteria must have presented no problem to them.

There are a number of cases that have already been through the courts where the police have been found against and CCs have been critiscised, so he/she might be a bit wary of even letting it go in that direction.

Richard Worth (Home Office 1999) said;​
“In general we would advise the police to exercise caution in imposing conditions that are unduly restrictive”.


BASC Guidance sheet from their website - lots of other useful info about conditions on there.

Sounds like it fits your circumstances!
 
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