Munty,s

dully1963

Well-Known Member
has any body seen munty,s in the north of england because i think i'm cracking up as i,ve been seeing things:D
 
Most munties are below a line drawn from the Humber to the Wirral but there are munties in a couple of locations in both the NW and NE. Go to the BDS site and look at the distribution map to see that there are a couple of squares between Middlesbrough and Newcastle and a couple more around Bishops Auckland. In the NW there a some around Carlisle that have been there for quite a while, a few in the Workington/Whitehaven area and a few more in the southern Lakes SW of Kendal.
 
has any body seen munty,s in the north of england because i think i'm cracking up as i,ve been seeing things:D

Alright mate, course you is not cracking up, but what you need is confirmed sightings of them coming up north. Now I can confirm I see munties all the time, hitchhiking on the northbound side of the A19. Earlier today on my way back from the Smoke I saw one thumbing it, his board said he wanted to get to the Easington area, thats the only strange thing. Why Easington ?
:doh:

The Muntie continues to march north.
 
I believe there are a few enclaves of Muntjack in the North caused by the dog men going down south and catching them then bringing them back up and releasing them for their future sport!!

Dave
 
Dog men bringing up Muntjac

I have previously been involved with long netting hares, they needed to be transported in boxes, the stress they suffered was great.
I struggle with the concept of catching muntjack with lurchers, transporting them in something, and releasing them in the north ?
Any deer I have been involved with caught up in wire / snares succumb very quickly to stress.
The stress of being caught by lurchers and stress induced by road transport would see them off surely.
Could they not have migrated naturally around the Humber and keep heading north ?

Regards
Ian
 
I was told it was not so much dog men coming south to catch Muntjac for relocation, more like gamekeepers in the south selling live muntjac to lads from the north. Evidently they are suckers for squeezing into pheasant catchers baited with a bit of maize and a few beans ;).

I found this interesting article whilst trawling the net:

http://the-vasculum.com/vol93/Muntjac.doc
 
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I have previously been involved with long netting hares, they needed to be transported in boxes, the stress they suffered was great.
I struggle with the concept of catching muntjack with lurchers, transporting them in something, and releasing them in the north ?
Any deer I have been involved with caught up in wire / snares succumb very quickly to stress.
The stress of being caught by lurchers and stress induced by road transport would see them off surely.
Could they not have migrated naturally around the Humber and keep heading north ?

Regards
Ian

The problem is that with so many muntjac populations (and roe) there is no obvious line of expansion from established populations. There's suddenly deer popping up miles from the nearest population and it has to be suspected that they had the helping hand of Ivor Williams!
 
I have previously been involved with long netting hares, they needed to be transported in boxes, the stress they suffered was great.
I struggle with the concept of catching muntjack with lurchers, transporting them in something, and releasing them in the north ?
Any deer I have been involved with caught up in wire / snares succumb very quickly to stress.
The stress of being caught by lurchers and stress induced by road transport would see them off surely.
Could they not have migrated naturally around the Humber and keep heading north ?

Regards
Ian

Ian, don't forget that deer a naturally prey animals, for them chase and escape, fight and flight, live and die, are all in an average working day. I am not for one minute condoning the actions of the criminals that pursue deer with dogs but just saying don't underestimate a deers resilience. Also, there are many ways of catching small deer like muntjac without using dogs, your example of fox wires is a prime one. JC
 
Ian, don't forget that deer a naturally prey animals, for them chase and escape, fight and flight, live and die, are all in an average working day. I am not for one minute condoning the actions of the criminals that pursue deer with dogs but just saying don't underestimate a deers resilience. Also, there are many ways of catching small deer like muntjac without using dogs, your example of fox wires is a prime one. JC

Hi JC275
My experiance with roe is that they die very quickly in a snare, i believe due to stress rather than strangulation.
I have no experiance with muntjac in snares, are you confirming that they dont die from stress very quickly, and that these criminals are able to move them about the UK
If we are beginning to see very isolated ones up here in north yorkshire, what would things look like in 5years and then in 10years from your experiance

Regards Ian
 
has any body seen munty,s in the north of england because i think i'm cracking up as i,ve been seeing things:D

Where have you seen them ?? I have seen them at Sedgefield and Wynyard.

And it is true I know of lurcher boys catching them down South and releasing them up North . Muntjac are hardy creatures...
 
Hi JC275
My experiance with roe is that they die very quickly in a snare, i believe due to stress rather than strangulation.
I have no experiance with muntjac in snares, are you confirming that they dont die from stress very quickly, and that these criminals are able to move them about the UK
If we are beginning to see very isolated ones up here in north yorkshire, what would things look like in 5years and then in 10years from your experiance

Regards Ian

Some of my colleagues regularly catch muntjac in snares and invariably have to shoot them. Personally, I have my own opinions on snaring and the issues surrounding non-target spp etc but this is not the time or place to discuss them.

When you say a deer dies from stress can you (or anyone else reading this?) explain the actual cause of death?

As for muntjac, and other spp, being illegally moved and released, I think that there is no doubt this goes on. Not only by stalkers but by animal rehab centres, i've even seen this on television (Mrs Tiggywinkles I think). I have personally been approached by people asking for park deer (red and fallow) to be released into the wild in areas where there are no deer. The question has been raised on here before, I think there was someone looking to do something in the Welsh Marches a year or two ago.

Obviously the circumstances of the intitial capture and susequent treatment and handling will effect the outcome of any transport and relocation but don't underestimate how resillient deer (and most wildlife for that matter) are.

As to the question of how small, isolated populations will be likely to expand in the next five to ten years. Stand by, an increase is a near certainty.

JC
 
When you say a deer dies from stress can you (or anyone else reading this?) explain the actual cause of death?
JC

I'm not a vet but... I think the answer is usually heart failure, in the end. In short they suffer an overload of very potent hormones ( adrenalin,epinephrine, norepinephrin) which boost respiration, heart rate and suchlike, too far for too long and when something's gotta give... it usually does.
 
Read somewhere that CWD rapidly overheat when caught up leading to death, don't know whether this just applies to when they are in a thick winter coat.

I know somebody here in Yorkshire who had one in a pen which had originally been fished out of a well in Norfolk, it spent a while living in a dog kennel before transportation north so obviously did not die from overheating.
 
Hi JC275,
I dont underestimate the Resilience of wild life, I have spent some time being impressed by what wild life is capable of, except that is of roe deer in snares, in my experience they are overcome by stress (leading to heart failure) while in a snare, surprisingly quickly.
You mention your colleagues regularly catching muntjac in snares, and having to shoot them,
Are you suggesting they are less susceptible to stress, If you are this surprises me.
I was struggling with the concept of people catching mantjac with snares or lurchers and brining them up north, I would have expected a large percentage to die due to stress induced heart failure, Guess I was looking for confirmation that this was not the case with muntjac.
Regards
Ian
 
Hi JC275,
I dont underestimate the Resilience of wild life, I have spent some time being impressed by what wild life is capable of, except that is of roe deer in snares, in my experience they are overcome by stress (leading to heart failure) while in a snare, surprisingly quickly.
You mention your colleagues regularly catching muntjac in snares, and having to shoot them,
Are you suggesting they are less susceptible to stress, If you are this surprises me.
I was struggling with the concept of people catching mantjac with snares or lurchers and brining them up north, I would have expected a large percentage to die due to stress induced heart failure, Guess I was looking for confirmation that this was not the case with muntjac.
Regards
Ian


Sorry Ian, I can't really add anything, I am not a vet, I have been working with deer for 20 years but I can only tell it as I see it. JC
 
If animals died from stress from being chased then the population would have become extinct years ago.
It is natural for wild animals to be under pressure and to be chased, it happens to them day in day out.
People forget that only a few years ago it was perfectly legal to hunt deer with dogs and personally as a shooting person these days did not see anything wrong with it, the deer was either caught or not and couldn't be wounded and dissappear. It could be seen as more natural and fairer.
The rate at which muntjac breed and how they will venture into well populated areas will mean a rapid expansion.
I have heard that Roe are more senstive, but having shot both speices with the same calibre, I have never seen a Roe get up and run off like I have seen a muntjac with a chest shot.
 
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