30-06 Springfield

Cut+Squirt

Well-Known Member
Good evening everyone……I’m in the process of completing a variation for a larger calibre rifle……..Until now I have been shooting an HMR for rabbits, crows and the odd fox and a .223 for stalking roe. However in the next few weeks the HMR will being going in favour of a new rifle suitable for large lowland reds and the odd Sika..

I would like a rifle/calibre suitable for shooting everything including pigs which I plan to have a pop at in the near future.

I have been reading a bit about the 30-06 Springfield, it appears to tick all the boxes…..has anyone on the forum used the 30-06? And how does it compare to the other popular stalking rounds?

Finally, I notice on Gun Trader a few Winchester Model 70 {Shadow} for sale at very reasonable prices, I’m assuming there very cheap for a reason. Other than a shotgun I owned many years ago I have very little knowledge of Winchester.

Any advice or thought on the calibre and the above mentioned rifle would be well received.


Regards,

CADEX
 
Hi
I have a 30-06 Sako Finnlite. I love it especially for Reds, I have shot huge Galloway Stags and also Hill Stags with no problems at all. Overall a very good caliber.

Dalkur
 
30-06 is a fine 30cal round.

I like winchester 70s, but the Shadow is definately built to a price and that price isn't much! Look for the Extreme Weather, Coyote or even featherweight.
 
The .30-06 has a reputation both here and abroad for being a very capable cartridge. It's about as big as it gets without going for a big boomer magnum cartridge and will handle anything in the UK and most things outside of it with ease. If I could only have one Deer rifle for use here and also when I go to Canada or eventually get around to shooting some Pigs, I think the .30-06 would be a serious contender. It has a huge following in the states where the Deer are quite big and tough and some quarry can bite back.
 
.30 Springfield is an all time classic. Strictly speaking the 30-06 is the .30 Springfield but with a 150grain bullet loaded to 2700fps. Broken down it's the .30 calibre cartridge adopted in 1906. The army who developed it only used the 150 grain bullet until later when for long range staffing with machine guns a heavier boat tailed bullet was adopted but not kept of too long as it caused trouble in training rifle men due tot eh heavier recoil and it also proved to long ranged for a lot of the old ranges so they went back to the 150 grain bullet. So loaded with anything but the US Armies 150 grain spitzer bullet the cartridge is not the 30-06 ;)

Oh and please bear in mind if you wish to use it in France or Spain they don't allow military calibres/cartridges.
 
.30 Springfield is an all time classic. Strictly speaking the 30-06 is the .30 Springfield but with a 150grain bullet loaded to 2700fps. Broken down it's the .30 calibre cartridge adopted in 1906. The army who developed it only used the 150 grain bullet until later when for long range staffing with machine guns a heavier boat tailed bullet was adopted but not kept of too long as it caused trouble in training rifle men due tot eh heavier recoil and it also proved to long ranged for a lot of the old ranges so they went back to the 150 grain bullet. So loaded with anything but the US Armies 150 grain spitzer bullet the cartridge is not the 30-06 ;)

thanks for the history lesson :doh:


Ive used a 30.06 for years now and have taken muntjac and roe with it with minimal meat damage.
and over here in canada ive shot black bears and big deer and moose with no problems.
easy to find ammo and the recoil is very manageble
its one of the most populer rifle cartridge in the world for a reason !!
 
.30 Springfield is an all time classic. Strictly speaking the 30-06 is the .30 Springfield but with a 150grain bullet loaded to 2700fps. Broken down it's the .30 calibre cartridge adopted in 1906. The army who developed it only used the 150 grain bullet until later when for long range staffing with machine guns a heavier boat tailed bullet was adopted but not kept of too long as it caused trouble in training rifle men due tot eh heavier recoil and it also proved to long ranged for a lot of the old ranges so they went back to the 150 grain bullet. So loaded with anything but the US Armies 150 grain spitzer bullet the cartridge is not the 30-06 ;)

thanks for the history lesson :doh:


Ive used a 30.06 for years now and have taken muntjac and roe with it with minimal meat damage.
and over here in canada ive shot black bears and big deer and moose with no problems.
easy to find ammo and the recoil is very manageble
its one of the most populer rifle cartridge in the world for a reason !!


That's OK if you learnt something it was worth the time :D

Anyway it's almost as good as the cartridge they copied which of course is the 7.92mm Mauser (8x57mm) of course pushed a 154 grn bullet at 2900fps and was adopted with the first Spitzer bullet in 1905. ;)
 
That's OK if you learnt something it was worth the time :D

Anyway it's almost as good as the cartridge they copied which of course is the 7.92mm Mauser (8x57mm) of course pushed a 154 grn bullet at 2900fps and was adopted with the first Spitzer bullet in 1905. ;)

thanks again for the history lesson !!

interested to know if you actually have any experiance of this cartridge in the field !!
 
thanks again for the history lesson !!

interested to know if you actually have any experiance of this cartridge in the field !!

:rofl: yes as a matter of fact I have just swopped the 30-06 on my ticket for Deer for a .308. Still have the 30-06 of course but it's no in the collectors bit and not the shooting stalking bit. Confusing yes but that's Lincs Firearms licensing for you. Fact is with proper loading, i.e not the weak American ones the 8mm Mauser uses a slightly larger diameter bullet and a very similar velocity. For instance the Seller & Belliot 196 grain SPCE loading has a velocity of 2600fps if memory serve me right. Now checking with Speers #12 manual the highest velocity they achieved safely in the longer 06 case with a 200 Grn bull is 2554. bear in mind that's a hand load and they are often higher than factory loads. It's a pointless exercise to compare Speers 8x57 loads as they're an American company of course and the 8x57 is a political cartridge. if they loaded it to it potential it would show up the home (copied) sorry grown 06 so they deliberately down load it.

So you like the 3-06..fine it's a fine cartridge but I'll wager than many know nothing of it's history nor that the 8x57 is a bit better. Actually you should be thanking Paul Mauser because without him you would still be shooting Round nosed bullets all the time as it was his developments that lead to the Spitzer bullets I think you'll find and chances are the rifle you shoot has a lot of his ideas in it too. The US had to pay royalties to Mauser for bother the .30 Springfield cartridge and the Springfield 03 rifle. Twas only The Great War (WW1) which stopped the US paying them. The 30-06 is in fact a shortened 30-03 cartridge which used a 220 grain bullet. The original 8x57 Mauser cartridge used a 227 grain bullet of 0.318" diameter so what is known today as the 8x57 is properly the 7.92mm which uses the 0.323" diameter bullet.

Now as a collector of sporting rifles yes I have an interest in this and do try to pass on some of the information and it's quite sad really how many shooters have very poor knowledge of the cartridges they are using.

I have not used the 7.92mm in the field as yet due to the stupidity of the firearms licensing department in this county as they listed it for collection only :rolleyes: I had only just acquired hte rifle and the ammunition when the move came up.. But a slightly larger bullet at the same velocity has to hit harder and transfer more energy on impact due to increased frontal area. of course it means slightly lower sectional density but one cannot have everything ;).
 
:rofl: yes as a matter of fact I have just swopped the 30-06 on my ticket for Deer for a .308. Still have the 30-06 of course but it's no in the collectors bit and not the shooting stalking bit. Confusing yes but that's Lincs Firearms licensing for you. Fact is with proper loading, i.e not the weak American ones the 8mm Mauser uses a slightly larger diameter bullet and a very similar velocity. For instance the Seller & Belliot 196 grain SPCE loading has a velocity of 2600fps if memory serve me right. Now checking with Speers #12 manual the highest velocity they achieved safely in the longer 06 case with a 200 Grn bull is 2554. bear in mind that's a hand load and they are often higher than factory loads. It's a pointless exercise to compare Speers 8x57 loads as they're an American company of course and the 8x57 is a political cartridge. if they loaded it to it potential it would show up the home (copied) sorry grown 06 so they deliberately down load it.

So you like the 3-06..fine it's a fine cartridge but I'll wager than many know nothing of it's history nor that the 8x57 is a bit better. Actually you should be thanking Paul Mauser because without him you would still be shooting Round nosed bullets all the time as it was his developments that lead to the Spitzer bullets I think you'll find and chances are the rifle you shoot has a lot of his ideas in it too. The US had to pay royalties to Mauser for bother the .30 Springfield cartridge and the Springfield 03 rifle. Twas only The Great War (WW1) which stopped the US paying them. The 30-06 is in fact a shortened 30-03 cartridge which used a 220 grain bullet. The original 8x57 Mauser cartridge used a 227 grain bullet of 0.318" diameter so what is known today as the 8x57 is properly the 7.92mm which uses the 0.323" diameter bullet.

Now as a collector of sporting rifles yes I have an interest in this and do try to pass on some of the information and it's quite sad really how many shooters have very poor knowledge of the cartridges they are using.

I have not used the 7.92mm in the field as yet due to the stupidity of the firearms licensing department in this county as they listed it for collection only :rolleyes: I had only just acquired hte rifle and the ammunition when the move came up.. But a slightly larger bullet at the same velocity has to hit harder and transfer more energy on impact due to increased frontal area. of course it means slightly lower sectional density but one cannot have everything ;).

Wow. That's quite a dissertation! largely accurate, indeed, but I have a few bones to pick, Brit. I mean, as life long 30-06 shooter I must chime in.

The 30-06 is officially the "Ball Cartridge, Caliber .30, Model of 1906." The moniker "Springfield" is a bit of a colloquialism. Winchester stamped their Model 1895 Lever Action "30-Govn't-06" and no arms makers I know of refer to the cartridge as 30-06 Springfield.

I believe that the royalties paid to Mauser was for the rifle, not the cartridge, tho I am not absolutely certain of that. The switch from the 30-03 and the 220 grain Krag bullet (at 2300+ fps) was due directly to Germany's adoption of the 154 grain spitzer at 2800 fps. (Frankly, the use of the Krag bullet in the 30-03 was probably just the US Government being cheap! They had a lot of Krag projectiles!)

Lastly, the down loading of the 8x57 in US reloading manuals has NOTHING to do with that cartridge "showing up" the 30-06 ballistically. It is due to the huge number of .318" bored 1888 Commission Mausers that were sold nationwide for a few dollars each at one time, and the reluctance of any bullet or powder maker to end up in court when some idiot blew out his eyes stuffing a full house charge of powder in behind a .323" projectile. The same deference to antiquity is evidenced in 30-40, 45-70, 7x57. 32-20, 25-20, and 6.5x55 to name but a few. The 30-06 is also a cartridge that is loaded in deference to old weapons with an SAAMI rating around 50,000 PSI. When loaded to 60K in a modern rifle?? Who knows?

Look, I love the 8x57 (as you well know) but I doubt it there is an argument that it is "better" than the 30-06.~Muir

PS: I have maybe six or seven 30-06 rifles currently and have about as many 8x57's.
 
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Well said Muir !
If Brithunter wants a REAL 8mm rifle he should get an 8X68S.
I have just given away my trusty Weatherby Mk.5 8X68S to my Swedish moose-hunting pal.
The .30-06 cartridge is one of the finest ever made by mortal man and for the re-loader is excellent as projectiles of various weights and configurations can be found almost anywhere unlike those of 8mm persuasion.

HWH.
 
If you go with a .30-'06 (don't worry, we all know what calibre you are talking about!) it will compliment your .223 Rem very nicely. The only possible downside is not being able to use it in France but, realistically, not a problem for most people and the benefits far outweigh this small issue. If you fancy a European trip then just go somewhere other than cheese eating surrender monkey territory! JC
 
Ahhh Muir,

Yes the US paid royalties on the cartridge design which is why they have the same head diameter. As for the cartridge being political in the US then please explain if it's not why the Europeans expect their customers and users to have enough common sense to use the correct cartridge and load the 7.92 to it's design pressures and the older 8x57 with it's 0.318" bullets as well. Oh and COW claims the velocity of the new 1905 154 Gn loading was 2880 fps. Ken Waters claims it was 2870 fps and somewhere amongst my books is reference to the 2950 pfs claimed by some. Which ever way one looks at it it was at least 170fps faster with a 4grain heavier bullet than the US 30-06.

The reason of course was that the US like Britain was behind Germany and France in the development of smokeless powders. Again Paul Mauser was at the fore front of devlopment. He was not impressed by the commercially available powders when developing the 8mm Mauser so he set to and developed his own. This little titbit came from the Book:-

Original Obendorf Sporting Rifles.

I stand corrected upon my use of the Springfield label, must have been swayed by the labelling on my Sako factory ammunition boxes :oops:.

Now as for stags comments:-

Well said Muir !
If Brithunter wants a REAL 8mm rifle he should get an 8X68S.
I have just given away my trusty Weatherby Mk.5 8X68S to my Swedish moose-hunting pal.
The .30-06 cartridge is one of the finest ever made by mortal man and for the re-loader is excellent as projectiles of various weights and configurations can be found almost anywhere unlike those of 8mm persuasion.

HWH.

Ahh if I wanted to go that route I would get a .318 Westley Richards Accelerated Express ;). now there is a "proper" cartridge title :D Or how about the super rare .33 BSA hi velocity?. Damn I nearly had one of thse Model 1923 Hi-Velocity Game rifle marked .330 :cry:.
 
I now know three people who have chosen to rationalise their rifles and have only two centrefire rifles each for use in the UK. All three have gone for the .243 (55gn to 110gn) and the 30-06 (100gn to 250gn) and consider this the best all round compramise. All three also use their -06's in Africa for plains-game.

I have been fortunate to see a muntjac doe and buck shot with the 30-06 and cannot say there was a huge amount of meat damage done by the bullets, they also deal with roe and fallow excellently. All three chaps use their .243's almost exclusively for foxing now and the -06's for deer.

Of course there was an element of a scam to this rationalisation, "yes dear, I'm trading in these old rifles I don't use much anymore, I only really need the two for use in the UK". Odd that after the various trips to gunshops all over the place all three have come back with top of the range .243's, 30-06's, new scopes, moderators and a big game rifle each. And they got away with it too!!!!!!!!!!!

Jelous...me......? Don't know what you mean :fib:

ft
 
Ahhh Muir,

Yes the US paid royalties on the cartridge design which is why they have the same head diameter. As for the cartridge being political in the US then please explain if it's not why the Europeans expect their customers and users to have enough common sense to use the correct cartridge and load the 7.92 to it's design pressures and the older 8x57 with it's 0.318" bullets as well. Oh and COW claims the velocity of the new 1905 154 Gn loading was 2880 fps. Ken Waters claims it was 2870 fps and somewhere amongst my books is reference to the 2950 pfs claimed by some. Which ever way one looks at it it was at least 170fps faster with a 4grain heavier bullet than the US 30-06.

The reason of course was that the US like Britain was behind Germany and France in the development of smokeless powders. Again Paul Mauser was at the fore front of devlopment. He was not impressed by the commercially available powders when developing the 8mm Mauser so he set to and developed his own. This little titbit came from the Book:-

Original Obendorf Sporting Rifles.

I stand corrected upon my use of the Springfield label, must have been swayed by the labelling on my Sako factory ammunition boxes :oops:.

Now as for stags comments:-



Ahh if I wanted to go that route I would get a .318 Westley Richards Accelerated Express ;). now there is a "proper" cartridge title :D Or how about the super rare .33 BSA hi velocity?. Damn I nearly had one of thse Model 1923 Hi-Velocity Game rifle marked .330 :cry:.

Brit: Thanks for the clarification on the royalties. As I have posted before, the US has always been big on getting someone else to do the R&D work on their firearms: The Krag Jorgensen, the Springfield, the 1917 Enfield and Boxer Primers.

As to the political aspect of the 8x57 loadings, it is very common knowledge that they (ammo makers, powder makers) down load the 8x57 due to the 1888 Mauser. If you think that is is political, do a little research on the subject. The loads for 8x57 are pathetic: down into the 30-30 Winchester class. The 8x57 just isn't popular here, never was. No cheap components, no surplus Lake City brass at giveaway prices, and there is an abundance of other fine rifles and cartridges available that will do the trick. The only plus for the 8x57 is (was) the availability of cheap rifles. The first thing many shooters did was to rebarrel them ( I did so to many of these rifles) or punch them out to 8mm-06. The 1888 Mausers were out there in droves. They were considered weak and the .318" groove diameter was not well known to shooter then. Like many everywhere, it was an 8x57 and that's all they knew or cared about. Ammo makers responded in the way they knew best. They weren't about to make two variations (.318 and 323/ low pressure, high pressure) rounds for an unpopular cartridge. They compromised with a .321" bullet that was OK to fire in either bore diameter to to their low pressure loadings.

I ask you. How many times has the discussion about the down loading of the 6.5x55 come up here? Or the 7x57. These are just a couple cartridges that are loaded low to accommodate older weapons chambered for them. Anti Metric!! Well, look at the .257 Roberts. That was a very popular cartridge here at one time (still is to those who know better) and, because it was popular, was loaded to two power levels. The standard .257 Roberts and the ".257 Roberts +P", again, the ammo makers and powder makers recognizing that all weapons and breeching systems are not equal. The list of US cartridges deliberately down loaded can go on forever. Added to those listed above: 44-40, 45 Long Colt, 38 S&W.... Even the 38 Special has to load levels: Standard and +P.

Sorry Amigo, your Conspiracy Theory doesn't hold water in my book.

As to the relative power of the 8x57 and the 30-06. I believe Norma and others routinely load to levels in excess of 50K psi for the 8x57. US makers keep the 30-06 at 50K. And whats with this tit for tat comparison of 4 grains of bullet and 170 fps?? Isn't this the kind of bickering we usually laugh at, you and I? I couldn't care less which is faster. Deer wouldn't either. Drink some coffee, Man! :D~Muir

Oh, and for the record, I have exceeded 2900 fps with 150 grain bullets in a 30-06....
 
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If you fancy a European trip then just go somewhere other than cheese eating surrender monkey territory! JC

They do very good cheese too:D but tell the Maquis about surrender and you'll get an education. metaphorically of course. Luckily, we had a few miles of water, an empire, the Russians and, ultimately, the US cavalry, between us and Adolf. They didn't.
Yours truly, a confirmed Francophile :D
 
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