3 Hypothetical scenarios.....

Monkey Spanker

Well-Known Member
OK, let's say it's tonight, and official sunset is 18:40, so last legal shot by 19:40.

Scenario 1 -

It's now 18:55. You've decided it's just got too dark to continue stalking a begin to drive down a farm track. As you round a corner you see a Roe Buck in the headlights out in the field. You stop the vehicle and turn the lights off. You can see the silhouette of the animal to shoot it but not enough to identify it as a Buck. However, you just identified it in the headlights. BANG! - Down it goes. Quick retrieve and off down the track again....

Scenario 2 -

It's now 19:15. Driving down the track, you see another set of eyes in a dip at the side of the road but can't quite make out what it is. You stop the vehicle, but leave the lights on as the animal is just on the edge of the beam. A quick check through the binos reveals it's another Roe Buck! Happy days! BANG! - Down it goes. Quick retrieve and off again...

Scenario 3 -

It's now 19:35. (only 5 minutes left to shoot legally)!
You decide that a "hatrick" would be quite special and drive around the fields to look for another. You soon find another Roe Buck in the headlights and stop the vehicle leaving the headlights on. It's now 19:39, better be quick! BANG! Down it goes....

19:40, Unload, gralloch deer, travel home.:smug:

Right then....

1. How many of the scenarios would you get up to?
2. Have I broken the law at any time?
3. Is what I have done safe?
4. Is what I have done ethical?
5. Am I a naughty little Monkey!:confused::norty:

MS:)
 
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You might if caught be spanking your monkey in to the sticky sock in the jail if you get caught shooting in artificial light with out a night licence :gheyfight:
 
:D
Ahh, but I wasn't on the first one as my lights were turned off!:smug:
Oh, and why do I need a night license as it is within 1 hour of sunset!:rolleyes:
MS:)
 
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You dont need a night licence if your useing artificial light as long as you dont get caught. s2
 
OK, let's say it's tonight, and official sunset is 18:40, so last legal shot by 19:40.

Scenario 1 -

It's now 18:55. You've decided it's just got too dark to continue stalking a begin to drive down a farm track. As you round a corner you see a Roe Buck in the headlights out in the field. You stop the vehicle and turn the lights off. You can see the silhouette of the animal to shoot it but not enough to identify it as a Buck. However, you just identified it in the headlights. BANG! - Down it goes. Quick retrieve and off down the track again....

Scenario 2 -

It's now 19:15. Driving down the track, you see another set of eyes in a dip at the side of the road but can't quite make out what it is. You stop the vehicle, but leave the lights on as the animal is just on the edge of the beam. A quick check through the binos reveals it's another Roe Buck! Happy days! BANG! - Down it goes. Quick retrieve and off again...

Scenario 3 -

It's now 19:35. (only 5 minutes left to shoot legally)!
You decide that a "hatrick" would be quite special and drive around the fields to look for another. You soon find another Roe Buck in the headlights and stop the vehicle leaving the headlights on. It's now 19:39, better be quick! BANG! Down it goes....

19:40, Unload, gralloch deer, travel home.:smug:

Right then....

1. How many of the scenarios would you get up to?
2. Have I broken the law at any time?
3. Is what I have done safe?
4. Is what I have done ethical?
5. Am I a naughty little Monkey!:confused::norty:

MS:)

You start by saying you're packing in because it's got too dark. Leave aside the difficulty (in Scenario 1) of getting your gun back together and loaded because you've likely stowed it away for transport, you then say you couldn't clearly identify your target. Game over. Scenarios 2 and 3 aren't happening. Unless you're a very naughty Monkey.... who might just have shot a badger spotter.
 
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You start by saying you're packing in because it's got too dark. Leave aside the difficulty (in Scenario 1) of getting your gun back together and loaded because you've likely stowed it away for transport, you then say you couldn't clearly identify your target. Game over. Scenarios 2 and 3 aren't happening. Unless you're a very naughty Monkey.... who might just have shot a badger spotter :D.
But it's only too dark to stalk on foot!
My gun was made safe, but by my side in case a pesky 'Charlie' appeared on the way out!;)
I clearly identified the target in my headlights before I turned them off!:cool:
So scenario 1 is :thumb: yes?
 
Up here you have broken the the Law (Deer Act Scotland) in Scenario 1 maybe just the spirit of the law but in 2 & 3 the law

Down in England though I dont think you have broken any laws.
As down there you could even use a Image Intensifier or other night vision as long as it is between 1 hour before sunrise and 1 hour after sun set where as up here they are a big no no
 
Up here you have broken the the Law (Deer Act Scotland) in Scenario 1 maybe just the spirit of the law but in 2 & 3 the law

Down in England though I dont think you have broken any laws.
As down there you could even use a Image Intensifier or other night vision as long as it is between 1 hour before sunrise and 1 hour after sun set where as up here they are a big no no

Quality reply Sweep!:D
I'm off to get some popcorn!:lol:
 
just love these threads, food for thought, and very educating too with lots of humour thrown in :D ...callie
 
1, 2 & 3 a definate NO NO!!! not good practice

Argueably not good practice - but have I broken the law??!:confused:

My rifle is also cleared for use on foxes, and if I had shot 3 foxes by these methods would anyone bat an eyelid??! I doubt it.

So, I don't appear to have broken the law. My shots were all safe, as I know the land well, and could have been legally shooting foxes the same way!

Just down to ethics then really?:confused:

Which raises another question! Is 'best practice' therefore just an ethical set of guidelines which can never be backed up by law?

Am I a naughty Monkey?

Yes! :stir:
 
Imho,

from the opening sentence you state its to dark to stalk, then later you say its only to dark to stalk by foot so there-fore all scenarios where using an aid of artificial light.
That was either to initially identify or establish a deer's location.
For me its a clear no, no, no.

Once i am off the hill due to dark be it walking or driving deer are off the list.
Why, even if i could firstly establish it was a deer and then a legal species/sex deer to shoot what is now behind it, i can hardly see it so how can it be a safe shot.
Also mind, what if you make a slight error due to loss of light and wound it, can you safely carry out the follow up on that animal. i would doubt it.

i know its all hypothetical but the answers still no. tomorrow morning is a new day.

f.
 
All this makes a nonsense of the argument that deer stalking is a sport, IF you have done the above, then it must have been done for the "numbers", or for the "buzz" you get shooting a live target, would a sportsman have done it?
 
Imho,

scenarios where using an aid of artificial light.
That was either to initially identify or establish a deer's location.

Why, even if i could firstly establish it was a deer and then a legal species/sex deer to shoot what is now behind it, i can hardly see it so how can it be a safe shot.
Also mind, what if you make a slight error due to loss of light and wound it, can you safely carry out the follow up on that animal. i would doubt it.

i know its all hypothetical but the answers still no. tomorrow morning is a new day.

f.

It would appear that the laws in Scotland are different with regards to artificial light;).
In England though, I can shoot one hour after sunset - that's about it really!:confused:
It could also be argued that the first animal could have been identified by sex as a suitable cull animal at very long range with good optics. By the time it is stalked to a suitable shooting range, it might be impossible to clearly sex it, especially at certain times of the year.
But, It could still be seen clearly enough for a safe shot with an illuminated reticle and let's say a clear rising stubble field behind it.

If I only took shots at last light which I could follow up visually with the naked eye, then I couldn't do my job properly. Anyone that shoots shy Fallow in the evening will know what I mean!;)
MS:)
 
All this makes a nonsense of the argument that deer stalking is a sport, IF you have done the above, then it must have been done for the "numbers", or for the "buzz" you get shooting a live target, would a sportsman have done it?

Nobody is argueing that deer stalking is a 'sport' here mate. Most recreational stalkers have the luxury of 'tomorrow morning being a new day'.
Most professional deer 'Managers' have robust cull targets to meet and must therefore maximise every opportunity they get.
No, I haven't done the above either!
You are right though, in that this sort of scenario would only be done for the 'numbers'.
My 'hypothetical' point is that it is only 'ethics' or best practice that prevents this from happening, as the Law seems to have a bit of a 'Loop-Hole' in this area!:eek:
MS:)
 
Nobody is argueing that deer stalking is a 'sport' here mate. Most recreational stalkers have the luxury of 'tomorrow morning being a new day'.
Most professional deer 'Managers' have robust cull targets to meet and must therefore maximise every opportunity they get.
No, I haven't done the above either!
You are right though, in that this sort of scenario would only be done for the 'numbers'.
My 'hypothetical' point is that it is only 'ethics' or best practice that prevents this from happening, as the Law seems to have a bit of a 'Loop-Hole' in this area!:eek:
MS:)

Ae loop hoel in the leu? .... I think not MS.

It really dpends on the type of "night" doesn't it? A cloudy, drizzly, moonless eveing and it's up sticks and away early. A clear, bright, night and the 1 hour rule even seems harsh.
 
yes you have broken the law because i thought that it was illegal to shoot deer from a motor vehicle (i may stand corrected tho) and even if your not breaking the law tho you have just wasted what could have been 3 really good stalking trips
 
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