Things economic, generally.

finnbear270

Well-Known Member
As many of us who stalk, do it as a treat, rather than those who are blessed with it as an encumbrance :D ! How many of you , like me, have seen an improvement in industry, as opposed to those idiots on the telly who keep talking it down, I'm presently sat in front of this box suffering from a blast in the right eye, those of you who weld or are in metalworking will know what that is,........... I have just had two weeks work returning to Class One driving, delivering & collecting from heavy industries around the north west, at one particular client's premise there are so many welders working in the place there's no room for screens!.. A scene repeated in more than a few workshops!.... a good omen for the future?......... I reckon it might be for my stalking!
 
I totally agree, my role takes me around some heavy industries. Last year we saw a well known company pay off about 70% of their engineering staff. I was back recently and had to park in the overflow carpark they are busier than ever.
 
Yep, definately picked up where i work mate.

I work for Corus, or as it now known as TATA. last year we lost a good 3rd of our workforce and i did consider taking my redundancy myself. Now, we have employed agency workers to try and keep up with demand and the increase in shifts, and i have to say we are getting offered overtime too. There is talk of these guys being set on perminently, but i think the managment will hang fire at the moment to see how things pan out with the talk of this double dip the doom mongerers keep going an about.

wadas
 
I think you will find it is spare baggage that is getting the chop this time round. The creators are a lot safer than the penpushers that have fought for years to justify their own existance. It comes to something when threr are more penpushers in a hospital than medical staff. Each counil department head is usually duplicated in a head office where the secretary has a clerical assistant to ensure he/she does not run out of paper clips and the director does not have to stand up to scatch is ---------
Better leave it there before I start on the .ankers,
Jim
 
hi finnbear i agree we have been flat out for months now its hard to fit everything in.the last time i got a flash i managed to get some drops off the wife who is a nurse and one drop it takes all the scratchyness away unlike the usual gunk they put in and blurs the vision,wayne
 
That's great news- I co-own a dental laboratory, and 2010 has not met our expectations. We were hoping to expand, and instead we recently were at the verge of making staff redundant. But as with all things in our line, it will take a while before we feel a real improvement. Let's hope 2011 exceeds our expectations.

Jakes
 
This time last year I was starting to worry, November was dire, December was dead as it is most years, First half of January was written off due to snow, second half not much better.... Then Tax bill arrives.... EEK how do I pay that?
For the first time in 10yrs of self employment I was late paying and you would have thought I'd half inched the crown jewels, treated like a criminal... threats of bailiffs. Managed to pay eventually but now have a low credit rating.
Things started to pick up around the end of March and touch wood we are still meeting and exceeding targets :D
 
I have a day job working for a global financial institution (Not one that needed bailing out due to bad practise before the whingers start) and after having real concerns over the last year things are really picking up. We picked up lots of business from failing financial institutions and are now lending more than others in many sectors, so I too think things are looking up.

I also own my business (Started as a hobby thing and snowballed) and our sales are increasing steadily. So I'm always suspicious when I read the media reports about recession etc. We also dabble in the BTL market, and while the property prices may have dipped a bit in recent times, the lettings market in our area is positively booming. A house can be rented out in 2 weeks at a rate not seen since we started doing this. I reckon that mortgages will become more readily available once all the **** banks have paid back the money they owe the government and have more to lend to the general public. Rental income will decrease as more people can buy. But prices will inevitably rise. I really do think there are some great deals to be had right now property wise if you can get onboard.
 
I reckon that mortgages will become more readily available once all the **** banks have paid back the money they owe the government and have more to lend to the general public. Rental income will decrease as more people can buy. But prices will inevitably rise. I really do think there are some great deals to be had right now property wise if you can get onboard.

if you look at data over a number of years then the average price to average income multiples are still historically high. i work with graduates that are earning just shy of national average wages, their partners earning the same. these people (typical first time buyers) can hardly afford a night out after paying rent and bills let alone thinking of buying. i hope for their sake ( and the sake of my kids) that the banks do not lend at the stupid (fraudulent) levels that they had been lending at pre crunch and that prices get back to normal income multiple levels. im glad that things are looking up on the job front for you, im not doom and gloom but the house price thing is crippling our youth and reducing their aspirations and expectations.

this is a stalking forum and to leep things "on topic" i bought a swaro 4-12x50 av yesterday and its ace.
 
I work for a local authority (before any naysayers jump in I'm a technical officer not management). Our service is part of the Development Control service and we've seen all kinds of construction slump hard at the start of the recession with a brief resurgence and it's slumping again now. Additionally all our jobs are under threat not just the upper echelons so from cleaners upwards. No one knows where the axe will fall at present but we know that frontline services will get clobbered as there is less money to achieve any given level of service.
I'm encouraged by some of the other experiences in this thread and hope that the upturn filters through to this area right quick!

Regards

G
 
if you look at data over a number of years then the average price to average income multiples are still historically high. i work with graduates that are earning just shy of national average wages, their partners earning the same. these people (typical first time buyers) can hardly afford a night out after paying rent and bills let alone thinking of buying. i hope for their sake ( and the sake of my kids) that the banks do not lend at the stupid (fraudulent) levels that they had been lending at pre crunch and that prices get back to normal income multiple levels. im glad that things are looking up on the job front for you, im not doom and gloom but the house price thing is crippling our youth and reducing their aspirations and expectations.

this is a stalking forum and to leep things "on topic" i bought a swaro 4-12x50 av yesterday and its ace.

Pete, house prices won't ever fall to the levels they were 5 or 6 years ago. And it's unlikely that much lower price to earning ratios we have seen historically will ever return also. You need to remember that when people were taking out mortgages with tiny or even no deposit, they were not having guns held to their heads. People simply overstretched themselves in many cases. Rather than either saving for bigger deposit or buying something cheaper they chose to take out huge loans. The banks cannot be held responsible for all of the financial mess.

Also, I believe the national average is around 26k? So if there partners are earning the same, we'll say their household income is £52k. Now lets go back to the nineties where traditionally a couple could borrow two and a half times their salary. So, so long as they've saved up a 10% deposit they can borrow £130,000 assuming they have a good credit rating and no history of being irresponsible. There are literally tens of thousands of properties nationwide for sale at less than this.

What you may mean is that many people can't afford to but the type of house in the area they want to live in. This isn't the same thing. Anyone prepared to work their backsides off can get on the property ladder. It may take a while, it may be extremely hard work, but it's being done every day.

P.S It is a stalking forum, but it's a non stalking thread. Perhaps the scope story belongs in the equipment thread. Not having a go, just balancing things.

Best
MJ
 
A stalking forum, just like this subject , runs on money,........... stalking for me is a bloody hard earned treat, paid for by hard work for hard cash,.......... how can this be "off topic?"................................ unless of course you are burdened by stalking as a job!
 
I work in the public sector (frontline operational not admin or management) I know that I won't be getting a pay rise for a few years and the ones we've had over the last 5 years have been below inflation. For me there is no overtime, no bonus and now little job security.

Every time I go shopping, be it food or anything else, the price seems to be more expensive than the last time.

I don't seem to be doing half of the stuff I used to due to travel costs and less dispossable income.
 
Anyone prepared to work their backsides off can get on the property ladder. It may take a while, it may be extremely hard work, but it's being done every day.



MJ[/QUOTE

a lot of people are patting themselves on the back and saying because they worked hard they have what they have. this can be true, in general you get out what you put in but if you think we live in some kind of meritocracy at present then you are wrong. when you consider a graduate couple will have to pay off 20+ k of graduate loans prior to saving deposit for a 1 bed flat (in my area 100k ++) the loans are set to get higher as fees etc increase. tell them that the reason that they are screwed is because they dont work hard enough. i suspect if you were in their situation with their finances and professions you would fare no better. I've done well myself from house price inflation but i see it for what it is,luck, not hard work. as for BTL dont get me started, this is the root of the problem.
I'm alright jack but i do have a social concience and appreciate my circumstance is not purely down to "hard work". I would never tell someone the 100% 200% whatever increase in the value of my property had nothing to do with the quality of my lifestyle when they were spending 50% of ther income to live in your crappy BTL flat. Leave something for those that come after you and dont be so greedy.


scope still ace
 
Anyone prepared to work their backsides off can get on the property ladder. It may take a while, it may be extremely hard work, but it's being done every day.



MJ[/QUOTE

a lot of people are patting themselves on the back and saying because they worked hard they have what they have. this can be true, in general you get out what you put in but if you think we live in some kind of meritocracy at present then you are wrong. when you consider a graduate couple will have to pay off 20+ k of graduate loans prior to saving deposit for a 1 bed flat (in my area 100k ++) the loans are set to get higher as fees etc increase. tell them that the reason that they are screwed is because they dont work hard enough. i suspect if you were in their situation with their finances and professions you would fare no better. I've done well myself from house price inflation but i see it for what it is,luck, not hard work. as for BTL dont get me started, this is the root of the problem.
I'm alright jack but i do have a social concience and appreciate my circumstance is not purely down to "hard work". I would never tell someone the 100% 200% whatever increase in the value of my property had nothing to do with the quality of my lifestyle when they were spending 50% of ther income to live in your crappy BTL flat. Leave something for those that come after you and dont be so greedy.


scope still ace

It is true Pete. When I get home from a demanding job I start on my own business. Some days I can work 18 hours +. My choice.. But I'm happy to put he hours in as I want to retire early, and to be honest, I quite enjoy a lot of it.

Things could be worse though as propety prices in your area are certainly not high. But you've missed my point entirely. The graduates you refer too won't have been working very long. But if they're serious about getting on the property ladder they will. Like I said "It may take a while, it may be extremely hard work, but it's being done every day."

And property development, buying and selling at the right time is not alll luck. You're deluded if you think it is. A lot of research and risk has to be underaken when making money in the property game. As for BTL (And ours really ain't that crappy if you don't mind) ownership, well yes I do want to leave something behind for others. My kids and ultimately their kids. It's not being greedy, investing in BTL's is a pension plan also. Seeing as our state pensions won't be worth jack by the time I reach 66 (Or will it have increased to 102 by the time I get there) I think it's quite sensible to plan for the future. After all I'd rather support myself through old age than be a burden on anyone, the state or otherwise.

I'm not convinced that BTL is as socially devisive as you claim. But I do believe people have unrealistic expectations. If a couple can't afford a property in the area they want to live in they can always move. Find work elsewhere. I can assure you others manage it elsewhere. :)
 
It is true Pete. When I get home from a demanding job I start on my own business. Some days I can work 18 hours +. My choice.. But I'm happy to put he hours in as I want to retire early, and to be honest, I quite enjoy a lot of it.


Things could be worse though as propety prices in your area are certainly not high. But you've missed my point entirely. The graduates you refer too won't have been working very long. But if they're serious about getting on the property ladder they will. Like I said "It may take a while, it may be extremely hard work, but it's being done every day."


And property development, buying and selling at the right time is not alll luck. You're deluded if you think it is. A lot of research and risk has to be underaken when making money in the property game.

As for BTL (And ours really ain't that crappy if you don't mind) ownership, well yes I do want to leave something behind for others. My kids and ultimately their kids. It's not being greedy, investing in BTL's is a pension plan also. Seeing as our state pensions won't be worth jack by the time I reach 66 (Or will it have increased to 102 by the time I get there) I think it's quite sensible to plan for the future. After all I'd rather support myself through old age than be a burden on anyone, the state or otherwise.



But I do believe people have unrealistic expectations. If a couple can't afford a property in the area they want to live in they can always move. Find work elsewhere. I can assure you others manage it elsewhere. :)

This is not about how hard you or i work. i earn ok work hard etc i also have my own business, get up at 4 before kids up to write reports etc big deal you dont know what i do i dont know what you do and frankly its irrelevant ( we both have time to surf the net on a friday night, not something i would admit to 10 years ago)

You say people can work hard and get on the ladder but it wont be a ladder for them at 6x income it will be a never ending tread mill unless we get wage inflation (cant see it at the mo) or house price inflation (cant see it at the mo) many families will be trying to raise kids in flats while pensioner couples live in 3-4 bedroom houses. my village is full of 3-4 bed houses with crap cars outside and only using 3 rooms to keep the gas bill down. this is because their poperty is worth £500 k but as they were a school teacher or middle manager and the wife raised the kids then they are only wealthy by virtue of their property capital not their graft. the prices are crippling young couples and forcing mothers to work when they could and should be looking after the kids, not farming them out to some nursery. the gaduates we have work damn hard and if i were them im not sure i would given that life is subsistence rather than onward and upward.

the luck in timing is about people that buy houses as shelter not investment then assume massive profits are down to graft. Im not totally naive about the housing market. I would suggest now is not a good time to buy if you are expecting a capital appreciation.
regarding btl,if your kids work "their backsides off" then you will not have to hoard property on their behalf . but i suspect you know as i do that even if they work as hard as you, harder even, then they may not get the same rewards as you. i have a coleague whos dad has a 20-30 property portfolio and she cant afford to get a house. she complains about her BTL landlord and his greed without a hint of irony. her dad thinks its scandelous too, what a tool
"I'm not convinced that BTL is as socially devisive as you claim" I believe it is but hopefully those overexposed will get burnt

"people have such unrealistic expectations of what you can get for your money these days" says the couple who bought their house for 50% less than they are asking 2 years before.
 
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You say people can work hard and get on the ladder but it wont be a ladder for them at 6x income it will be a never ending tread mill unless we get wage inflation (cant see it at the mo) or house price inflation (cant see it at the mo) many families will be trying to raise kids in flats while pensioner couples live in 3-4 bedroom houses. my village is full of 3-4 bed houses with crap cars outside and only using 3 rooms to keep the gas bill down. this is because their poperty is worth £500 k but as they were a school teacher or middle manager and the wife raised the kids then they are only wealthy by virtue of their property capital not their graft. the prices are crippling young couples and forcing mothers to work when they could and should be looking after the kids, not farming them out to some nursery. the gaduates we have work damn hard and if i were them im not sure i would given that life is subsistence rather than onward and upward.

You're missing mypoint. People don't NEED to spend 6 x their salary on a property. hey may well WANT a property valueddat 6 X their salary. Again, people in the UK want to live beyond their means. And for the record, we're "a young couple". I'm not sure every young woman would agree that "they should" be at home looking after their kids. That's quite offensive to many career women.



the luck in timing is about people that buy houses as shelter not investment then assume massive profits are down to graft. Im not totally naive about the housing market. I would suggest now is not a good time to buy if you are expecting a capital appreciation.

It all depends on the individual proprty and it's location, it's state of repair and what your investmnt plans are. Short, medium and long term plans determine if it's a good time to buy now or not. If your rnovating you need to know what work will improve value (Or saleability as the two are not the same) so you know what will give you a return and what jobs you're wasting you're time and money on. The days of buying something, waiting for it to appreciate in value and then flogging it are well gone!


regarding btl,if your kids work "their backsides off" then you will not have to hoard property on their behalf . but i suspect you know as i do that even if they work as hard as you, harder even, then they may not get the same rewards as you. i have a coleague whos dad has a 20-30 property portfolio and she cant afford to get a house. she complains about her BTL landlord and his greed without a hint of irony. her dad thinks its scandelous too, what a tool.

I apologise, I want my kids to have a happy and secure life. I must be very bad. Without reviewing your colleagues lifestyle and bank accounts for te last few years and having no details of her expectations I can't comment, but suspect she could have bought something if she'd had really wanted too, though probably not the nice 5 bed detached pad with large grounds she'd like to live in..... Not all landlords are as you claim. We don't have issues with our tennants and I'm unaware of any issues with us. She could always find a new one...

I believe it is but hopefully those overexposed will get burnt

"people have such unrealistic expectations of what you can get for your money these days" says the couple who bought their house for 50% less than they are asking 2 years before.

They probably will. But ensuring you're not over exposed is all part of playing the game successfully.The rental market will be buoyant for at least a couple of years. Right until the crap banks start offering more mortgages for first time buyers then things will change.

Oh, and the house we livein right now was purchased very recently. I think you'll find that houseprices were actually higher 2 years ago than they are now. And I'm unaware of any areas that realised 50% increases in 2 years. Or did you read that in a copy of Socilist Worker?

All the best
MJ
 
your out of touch with the situation 6 x a graduate clinicians salary would not buy a one bed flat in most places round here. thanks for the sage financial advice.i appreciate that many women want to work and have careers and i would not consider myself sexist but there are also many that have to work at hard jobs (not careers) just to make ends meet (i think you deliberatly mis understood this)and a lot of this is due to the rampant inflation that has been due to fraudulent lending, btl speculation and the bollox tv shows on every minute that tell you that if you dont get on the ladder your a loser. i am no socialist but believe in meritocracy ie you get out what you put in. i think we both agree on that.

i think we have fundimental differences of opinion on this, which is cool, our motives are similar make the best for ourselves and our families both in the short and long term we just see it differently. i like a good debate about this. ask anyone who has had the misfortune to come stalking with me and get an hour in the car on ******** ive read on the net or in money week etc.

finnbear sorry i derailed your thread. I am glad work is looking up for you. if your in oxfordshire let me know and i will take you out gratis (stalking that is)
 
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your out of touch with the situation 6 x a graduate clinicians salary would not buy a one bed flat in most places round here. )

You said a 1 bedroom flat was £100,000 plus and that graduates were earning close to te ational average salary. Your maths is appaling. :D. No offence. And I can't help thinking you've missed my point again. People can move if they can't afford to live where they want too. I really fancy living by the Ocean in Islamorada. I've even seen an ideal house when I was over thee a few months ago. But at $4,000,000 I confess I can't afford it. Thing is I don't really need the ocean views, the 40' dock for a boat or a flash US zip code. The principle is just the same with the graduates you mention. If getting on theproperty ladder is so important (And for some it's not, many are happy to rent) then they need to have realistic expectations.

thanks for the sage financial advice.i appreciate that many women want to work and have careers and i would not consider myself sexist but there are also many that have to work at hard jobs (not careers) just to make ends meet (i think you deliberatly mis understood this)and a lot of this is due to the rampant inflation that has been due to fraudulent lending, btl speculation and the bollox tv shows on every minute that tell you that if you dont get on the ladder your a loser. i am no socialist but believe in meritocracy ie you get out what you put in. i think we both agree on that.

Yes I believe in meritacracy. Very much so in fact! I'm not accusing you of being sexist, but if you read your post again, you'll see why I thought yor comments were unusual (You used the word "should"). And how do you define fraudulent lending? Do you not think those agreeing to take out mortgages shoulder any of the blame? Again, I've never had a gun held at my head when taking out a finance agreement. And I've read a lot of opinions on BTL investment. What I'd love to know is if these people who are always claiming that landlords are evil, greedy *******s that should be shot at dawn, if they were able to get into the BTL game and hopefully reap the very long term benefits it can offer, would they? BTL and property development can go horribly wrong. I have the utmost respect for people who put their money where their mouthes are and give it a go. If they take a risk, and have done their homework correctly I really don't see why anyone would begrudge them their reward?



i think we have fundimental differences of opinion on this, which is cool, our motives are similar make the best for ourselves and our families both in the short and long term we just see it differently. i like a good debate about this. ask anyone who has had the misfortune to come stalking with me and get an hour in the car on ******** ive read on the net or in money week etc.

finnbear sorry i derailed your thread. I am glad work is looking up for you. if your in oxfordshire let me know and i will take you out gratis (stalking that is)

I think we have a few things in common. Nothing is more important than family. And I can talk ******** for hours on financial matters that interest me too! lol

What does interest me though is, while things are going better than the popular media seems to indicate, I can't help wondering what will happen when the governments spending cuts eventually filter through the economy?

As for affordable housing, whats needed is a scrapping of our land regs. Develop huge housing estates on green field sites filled with basic 2 and 3 bedroom terrraced houses for sale as shared ownership schemes to get people onto the housing ladder. How far they get up it, is then upto then. But an increase in cheap housing stock would ultimately bring property prices down. The thing is, what government would do that? And if they would, could they do it? Not a chance in hell at the moment!
 
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