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Thread: Open certificate

  1. #1

    Open certificate

    Just looking for opinions on the best way to secure an 'open condition on my FAC, or should I say, remove the 'closed' condition.

    I have the good old standard "The guns to which this certificate relates shall be used on ranges or land deemed suitable by the chief of police for the area in which the land is situate."

    I have renewed my certificate recently (first renewal) and while I did ask to have this taken off it still came back with it ~ I have checked and it isn't a mistake. I had my supervision condition taken off easily enough about two years ago and have received very practical and helpful advice and service from my FLO. In fact I took the time to write to the chief constable to comment on the good service.

    When it comes to the open certfifcate they seem to be totally against it. I appreciate that after only five and a bit years of FAC ownership I am relatively inexperienced compared to many but have got through several thousand rounds now. When I asked, my FLO said that the current line from HQ now was that they would rather check all the land in the county rather than give out open certificates. I was asking for quite a lot though so thought better of an argument on the obvious points!

    Any ideas on getting this taken off would be great as I do sometimes get asked if I would like to go out with others and it is a bit embarrassing to have to say 'I'd love to, but is your land checked?'

    I have started up going out with a pro pest controller who does quite a bit of deer management as part of his job and sometimes asks for some help. This can be on any piece of land and when he wants me to go it has to be NOW, not in two weeks when someones got round to going and checking the land. Do you think that his writing to my FLO to explain why I need an open FAC would help, or is not a material consideration.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2

    open tickets

    near the end of that monster of a document is a section with conditions that can be used on firearms cerificate. also in the body there is a section about deer stalkers.

    It says that it is accepted that many stalkers stalk by invite or payment, this should be recognised and an open ticket granted.

    if you write to to the firearms team and explain about the mate that needs you to help him out at times it is only reasonable the condition is removed. if it is not removed then ask why and point out the publication above. you will need to submit a variation form for this, but it will be a freeone. it might help if he also submits a letter with your form.


  3. #3

    open ticket.

    this is the section that talks about deer stalkers and ground

    13.30 An applicant who wishes to shoot deer
    should name land which has the likelihood of
    the appropriate deer species being present,
    and an invitation, booking or authority to
    shoot. Many deer stalkers will rely on
    invitations to shoot on payment rather than
    be hired or paid to do so and may not be
    able to shoot regularly or frequently, though
    others may be permanently employed, for
    example Forestry Commission staff. Hunting
    large animals with powerful rifles requires
    particular skill, and applicants should generally
    have experience of firearms.

    I would suggest that you write to the local firearms department explaining your experience of firearms use, explain your situation and maybe you could get your mate to write that covering letter saying he needs you to assist on pest control jobs.

    This will make sure you fit the above criteria.


  4. #4
    Thanks for that Swampy.............Martin.

  5. #5
    Many thanks Steve. Will see how I get on.

  6. #6
    I was of the understanding that the restrictions were normally removed on renewal but obviously not in this case.

    I would also have thought that 5 years would be sufficient "time served" to warrant them being lifted.

    If you have been using your firearms on a regular basis in my opinion it's unreasonable of the FLO to keep the restriction on also bearing in mind that irrespective of a restriction it's you that's responsible to ensure a safe shot.

    to coin the usual phrase, " land is not safe or unsafe to shoot on"

    You could always inundate them with land checks 8)


  7. #7
    It says that it is accepted that many stalkers stalk by invite or payment, this should be recognised and an open ticket granted.

    can't fined that bit,must say my eyes where going funny by this time long document

  8. #8
    I don't know if this still applies now or not but many years ago when i got my open ticket for shooting pest and vermin etc and deer i only needed to provide written permission from 3 farms to open my certificate and that was deemed good reason for the open licence to be granted by Cumbria Police .
    which was not a problem back then as i shot on 14 farms with over 4000 acres and it has being applied to all my hunting rifles i have had over the years including .22rf .22H 243,270,308, 357 and 444, and solid slug, ever since (23 years ago on my first ever fac which then lasted 3 years).
    The fly in the ointment will be if you can get three farms to shoot on nowadays but if you can try it.

    PS back then we never heard of the supervision condition if there was one?


  9. #9
    Well I thought that it would be taken off on renewal but there you go... I thought better of arguing at the time as I got all the calibres I wanted and can set about that another day.

    Nice idea about the land checks. Unfortunately most of my shooting isn't the county I live in!

    Doesn't seem to be any written rules about how many years, how many bullets you ned to have fired brfore you have show yourself to be competent to decide if land is suitable for using a firearm over.

    Its really odd, they took my supervision condition off without a DSC1 or any other proof of competence or even my asking them to. I moved counties, therefore got a new certificate and it came back without it on but they now won't give me an open FAC??!

    When it comes to these issues I sometimes wish I lived up north! It always seems to be easier up there. I think there might be a sense of humour faliure in police HQ if I asked for a .444!!

    I'll get it taken off one way or another.....

  10. #10

    open certificate

    Funny how the law of the land seems to be interpreted so differently from county to county, (for county, read feifdom.)

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