Last minute muley,...

As some of you may be aware, I have been working up some loads for my 65 year old Swedish Husqvarna Model 648 in 8x57 Mauser. I spent the summer working up loads that would shoot to the point of aim using iron sights, settling on a 206 grain RN lead bullet over 51.5 grains of IMR 4350. This load shoots three-inches high at 100 yards and I believe mimics the 196 grain hunting load of the 1940’s. The final loading proved to be accurate and reasonably fast at 2350 feet per second from my Husky’s 24 inch barrel. It was with great satisfaction that I pronounced the load development done last month… and it was no little bit of relief as the Montana General Deer season was fast approaching. I was glad to have a cooperative rifle.

Unfortunately, few other facets of my life lent itself to the prospect of the hunt. For the first two weeks of the season it rained during a stretch of unseasonably warm weather. When the weather finally turned cold, I was on my way to Cancun, Mexico for my daughters wedding. I returned to a hellish surgical schedule at the hospital, followed by a long stretch on Stand By for emergence surgery services. This stretch ends tomorrow morning and as I must be within 30 minutes of the surgical theater when on Stand By, there was precious little opportunity to hunt. This morning started the last day of the Season and I woke facing the prospect of culminating all of my load development with a dud season. It was this sad thought that prompted me to call a coworker and ask him to cover my call this morning so that I could take one shot at blooding the Swede. Amazingly, he agreed.

Of course, the weather did its part to keep me home. Around dawn it started to snow, hard, and the temperatures dropped to about 10F. I met my hunting partner at a country butcher operation north of town and we headed out for a short tour around the immediate area, concentrating on the fields at the edge of the steps that separate the Big Horn River valley from the Yellowstone River. It didn’t take us long, traveling along some section roads, to find a herd of mule deer. There were 12 of them feeding in the stubble alongside of a fallow hay field. Unfortunately, they were too far away for my iron sights; milling around some 250 yards away and below us. I left the vehicle and shouldered my pack for the stalk within range. The snow was coming down in icy particles and put everything into a gray pall. I was hoping the deer –which certainly saw the truck- wouldn’t be too spooky considering the distance and the visibility. I was partially rewarded when some of them put their heads down to browse as my partner drove off with the truck and I walked away to find a good spot to cross the first of several barbed-wire fences between myself and the herd of deer.

I made it over the first fence without rousing any angst from the deer. I was partially hidden by the ridge I was on and they seemed to be distracted by the truck motoring off down the road. When I crossed the next fence I was in full view of the deer and still no closer. They still only stared. Some milled around. Some continued to feed. So far, so good. One more fence to cross… but then what?? I’d still be too far and hell, it’s darned hard to be inconspicuous when you’ve no place to hide and have to approach the deer directly. I figured that was my best plan; to walk towards them like I was supposed to be doing just that. I couldn’t help but feel like this was a wasted effort in the making.

I next get to yet another ridge-top fence line and swing one leg over the sagging wire while watching the deer- who still haven’t seemed to label me as a serious threat. It was when I was straddled across the barbed wire that I saw the pair of does standing in the tall grass of the hay field. They were about 150 yards off and while one got up and wandered off to the group, the other just stood up and faced them, quartering away from me and facing to my right; watching its friend walk toward the herd. I carefully got myself off of the fence and took a hard look at the distance. I decided to take the shot as the next phase of the stalk would entail me working my way down a steep embankment in deep snow to reach the level of the deer. Tho the shot was farther than I’d have liked, the vantage point made it a better option. I aimed for the chest and fired.

At the shot the deer lurched and skid forward toward its knees but recovered and walked briskly towards the herd which was marching quickly away over the open field on the other side of the fence that separated the hay field from the cultivated fields. I was certain she was hit hard and was surprised when she covered about 100 yard before turning a circle and lying down. But she didn’t lie down like a lung shot deer. It had it’s head up as I could see it above the grass. I kept my eye on it as I made my way down the broken slope to the hay field, at which point I lost sight of her. I made my way along the fence line hoping to catch her in the open lane along the fence should she make it to her feet. I walked about 100 yards when a deer suddenly burst up out of the grass about 40 yards distant and bound straight away from me, down that aforementioned lane of clear ground. I wasn’t sure it was “my” deer as it was moving pretty quickly, so I held my shot and watched. It traveled about 150 yards and stopped, seeming confused or tired. Ok. That was my deer. Again I had no recourse but to walk straight toward it and hope to close the distance for a shot. And so I did. I walked slowly and tried to make myself “small” as I walked. At 250 pounds that’s a tall order! I just kept walking and watching. The doe just stood there, facing away from me, seemingly disinterested. I knew she was hit bad enough to wind her and I was seeing blood in the snow as I walked. Not a lot though.

When I got to within 80 yards she turned sideways, giving me a clear broadside shot. I aimed for the heart and fired, hearing the whump! as the bullet struck. She humped and staggered in a circle before diving into a heretofore unnoticed irrigation ditch.

Crap!

I headed to my left at about a 45 degree angle to head off her progress down the ditch should she make it that far. These ditches can run for miles and have much undergrowth in them if they are in a state of disuse. Finding her in there would be a hellish walk. I got to the edge of the ditch and thankfully saw the deer with her head buried in the snow, right where she dove into the 10 ft deep trench. She was quite dead. Made my way down into the trench and secured a length of rope around her neck before climbing back out and then hauling her out to ground level. I was quite alone and hoping my partner had found a way down to the lower field. I had her gutted and ready to go when he finally found me. It was still blizzarding and bloody damned cold.

As it turned out, this was not a smallish doe but a “button” buck. When we got him back to the butcher shop we found that the first bullet had clipped through the ribcage under the right front foreleg, breaking ribs and causing some nasty but non-lethal damage. The second shot actually hit within inches of the first but traveled though the body, pulping the heart. The meat damage was less than you’d expect and I really only lost half of the front right leg as the second shot exited ahead of the off shoulder, sparing the meat.

The whole hunt took two hours and forty snowy minutes. I hung around the shop and helped butcher three elk and ate some elk tenderloin grilled outside the shop. It was a great way to end a hunt!

I am happy with the Swede 8x57 and the cast bullet load. But for my sorry marksmanship, this epistle would have been about three lines long. It was good to get this old rifle back into the field again, though, and I'm glad that I got out even if it was in the last minutes of the season.~Muir
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I like to read of old men and old rifles getting the job done :D. Well done Cuz, is that Jacks truck your getting dirty?

John
 
Muir

I love the way that in the States it is acceptable to have the spoils on display.

Back here there would probably be screams from women and children and calls made to the police.

I came back through one of our Scottish Borders towns a few years ago with several Sika stags in a trailer that was a bit small for the purpose and caused a bit of a squeeze, with antlers and feet sticking above the sides. To be honest the looks were hilarious. And yet no-one would likely bat an eyelid at a trailer full of cattle being transported to slaughter, crazy world...

I used to take out a couple of your countrymen stalking every year they were over at the pheasants and thoroughly enjoyed listening to their stories as well.
 
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I like to read of old men and old rifles getting the job done :D. Well done Cuz, is that Jacks truck your getting dirty?

John

No. That belongs to my friend Dennis. The part of the story I omitted was getting that thing stuck in a snow drift for 30 minutes and having to eventually call this old cowboy we know that has a Dodge Power Wagon to come yank us out. You shoulda been there... Next year??

And who are you calling an "Old Man", Cuz???

Jamross: I spent yesterday (late) afternoon warming up at the local McDonalds restaurant with my hunting buddy drinking coffee while waiting to see if we had to deliver three, 1-ton round bails of hay to a fellow south of town. During that time we wandered out to the gas station next door whenever we saw elk or deer in the back of the trucks. We saw quite a few including a 6x7 bull elk. It was fun. Admittedly, there are places in the US where I wouldn't want to be caught driving around with a deer int he back of the truck... but of course, usually there isn't any hunting in those areas anyhow.:rolleyes:

Next week starts the blackpowder season in South Dakota and I've got a tag...~Muir
 
I like it! And we dress alike too. ;)

If you are interested in 'lead only' then the following will be of no interest, but Hornady has a 196-grain "International" 8mm bullet that shoots well from my various K-98 variants, and Sierra has a 220-grain GameKing that is the best-shooting boat-tailed bullet I have shot.

Paul
 
Paul: Thanks! I have a few boxes of Speer 200 grain for my son to shoot and am looking for some PRVI 196 grain that isn't a FMJ as they are rather inexpensive and if the 9.3's are any indication, they shoot well.

I am predominantly a lead shooter. I have been for 25 years, at least. I got started with a 1903 Springfield and some commercial (lyman) bullets sold by the gun shop I worked at. After downing a deer with my home cast 210 grain GC from that Springfield I was hooked. I have molds from .205" to .620" with about 125 sets of blocks in between. It's an affliction....~Muir
 
Truthfully, with precious few exceptions, I haven't been able to get lead to shoot up to my expectations. My home-made jacketed bullets (which I consider "spiritually" the same as cast :) ), shoot well in my .50 Alaskan, and Oregon Trail's 405-grain Silver Bullet shoots well out of my .45-70s. All the rest - ones of my own casting - have been very disappointing. Either they lead like crazy or they shoot 'patterns' as opposed to 'groups'. I'm hoping I can get the new (to me) 11.2mm drilling to shoot lead to my liking.

I actually do a lot of casting it seems, but for various other endeavors mostly. I have maybe 30 sets of bullet and round ball molds but I don't have any smaller than .323 nominal, and I don't recall even having shot any of those. Now that I think of it, I did cast bullets that shot well from my Collath drilling's 10.75mm (.423") barrel. In fact, that gun and those bullets got me turned on to the .44-40 WCF cartridge. So much so that I missed it so much when I lost the Collath that I just bought a Rossi lever gun chambered in it Rossi USA I got the 20" octagon version. I'll be wanting to shoot lead from this rifle. I hope it shoots my cast boolits as well as the Collath did.

Regards,
Paul
 
Muir, a doe that turned into a button-buck? MMMMMmmmmhhhh :stir: Will a pair of binoculars be on your Christmas list? ;)

And for goodness sake man, letting your daughter getting married in the deer season :rolleyes:

I'm pleased you had some success :thumb:

ft
 
for goodness sake man, letting your daughter getting married in the deer season :rolleyes:

I said this to her when she announced the wedding, then she replied, I never knew that sweet child knew such words :eek:

John
 
Truthfully, with precious few exceptions, I haven't been able to get lead to shoot up to my expectations. My home-made jacketed bullets (which I consider "spiritually" the same as cast :) ), shoot well in my .50 Alaskan, and Oregon Trail's 405-grain Silver Bullet shoots well out of my .45-70s. All the rest - ones of my own casting - have been very disappointing. Either they lead like crazy or they shoot 'patterns' as opposed to 'groups'. I'm hoping I can get the new (to me) 11.2mm drilling to shoot lead to my liking.

I actually do a lot of casting it seems, but for various other endeavors mostly. I have maybe 30 sets of bullet and round ball molds but I don't have any smaller than .323 nominal, and I don't recall even having shot any of those. Now that I think of it, I did cast bullets that shot well from my Collath drilling's 10.75mm (.423") barrel. In fact, that gun and those bullets got me turned on to the .44-40 WCF cartridge. So much so that I missed it so much when I lost the Collath that I just bought a Rossi lever gun chambered in it Rossi USA I got the 20" octagon version. I'll be wanting to shoot lead from this rifle. I hope it shoots my cast boolits as well as the Collath did.

Regards,
Paul

Cast bullet shooting has evolved over the last 50 years. I started shooting cast when I was a teen in handguns and old pumpkin chucker military calibers but the dive into the deep-end of bottle necked rifle cartridges was an education. I had to abandon most of the wisdom I'd gleaned from old journals while growing up. Most leading I have encountered was due to a poor bore -something that is never conducive to cast lead accuracy- an undersized bullet, or a disregard of pressures VS alloy strength. If you get a real puzzler, give me a shout. I like cast bullet conundrums.

The Rossi sounds great. Do they specify an original .427" groove diameter, or the now-standard .429-.430? I have a few small cartridge lever guns but my hands-down favorite is a repatriated Wincheser Model 92 in 25-20WCF I bought in Australia. I love that little rifle. I shoot a 72 grain gaschecked bullet at 1800+ fps and it's penny punching accurate at 50 yards. Fun gun. I hope your 44-40 shoots as well.~Muir
 
Muir, a doe that turned into a button-buck? MMMMMmmmmhhhh :stir: Will a pair of binoculars be on your Christmas list? ;)

And for goodness sake man, letting your daughter getting married in the deer season :rolleyes:

I'm pleased you had some success :thumb:

ft

I have been thinking on this a little. I wonder if this was just an "antlerless" buck. He was pushing two years old with only a couple of bumps under the scalp. No binoculars would have helped there. Montana only specifies "antlerless" or antlered deer and I had a tag that covered both. My preference is to shoot does and I was a little surprised to find his tiny "junk" when I rolled him over. He should taste good though, as the feed in that area is excellent.

I had the good sense to not bring up the point of the wedding coming during hunting season. JAYB on the other hand.... Well. If you knew my little girl you'd be shuddering right now. I thought they should get married in South Dakota at my brother's lodge. The ceremony in the morning and deer hunting for the rest of the week. Ah well. The wedding was splendid as it was and I can always find more deer to hunt but the little girl only gets married once. ~Muir
 
Do they specify an original .427" groove diameter, or the now-standard .429-.430?
I don't know. I'll be disappointed if it is indeed .429 or .430. I don't know what that would be, but it would not be .44-40 WCF. My expectations aren't high for the Rossi's quality of "fit and finish". By the same token, the price is pretty good. Actually, what I'm putting together is a rifle/revolver pair that shoot the same bullet. .44 Rem Mag would work too, as I have a Browning low wall in .44 RM and a couple of .44 RM revolvers. However, the .44 RM just isn't 'the same' as a .44-40 or a .45 Colt.

I find the .25-20 a very interesting cartridge. I might make a rifle that shoots it, but it will be have to be a custom 'thing' not likely an original levergun. However, just having written that, I could see a major overhaul to the Marlin 1895G converting it from a 20" round-barreled .45-70 to a 24" octagon-barreled 25-20. Hmmm.... The gears are turning....

Paul
 
I don't know. I'll be disappointed if it is indeed .429 or .430. I don't know what that would be, but it would not be .44-40 WCF. My expectations aren't high for the Rossi's quality of "fit and finish". By the same token, the price is pretty good. Actually, what I'm putting together is a rifle/revolver pair that shoot the same bullet. .44 Rem Mag would work too, as I have a Browning low wall in .44 RM and a couple of .44 RM revolvers. However, the .44 RM just isn't 'the same' as a .44-40 or a .45 Colt.

I find the .25-20 a very interesting cartridge. I might make a rifle that shoots it, but it will be have to be a custom 'thing' not likely an original levergun. However, just having written that, I could see a major overhaul to the Marlin 1895G converting it from a 20" round-barreled .45-70 to a 24" octagon-barreled 25-20. Hmmm.... The gears are turning....

Paul

I think that most of the "modern" 44-40 is loaded with .429" bullets anyhow so doen't let your disappointment get the better of you. In reality, even some of the .44-40 revolvers I've owned require a .430" bullet to accommodate the generous throating. I'm guessing your lever gun will be no exception.

The 25-20 is neat. When and if you convert that 45-70 I'd love to hear about it. I converted a hacked up Model 1922 Springfield -originally a 22LR but which someone had converted to centerfire and chambered for .223- to 25-20 with a 1:14" twist heavy barrel and target scope blocks. I made a magazine insert that fed the 25-20 and reinstalled an original bolt stop to shorten the throw back from the hackers conversion. I put my Unertl 12X on it and shot some minuscule groups at 100 yards with the old Ideal 257-231 plain base weighing 88 grains. I used Accurate Arms 2015BR powder. It was wonderful! I sold it off a few years later with some regret. I currently shoot the M-92, a Martini Cadet conversion (also an Australian buy) with a BSA micrometer tang sight, and a minty Model 23B Savage bolt gun. I admit that all 25 caliber lead shooting holds a special place for me. I have also a Krag Jorgensen target rifle in 25 Neidner Krag that is an exceptional shooter. IT has a Lyman Micrometer sight made for the rifle (VS the standard Model Hunting receiver sight) and a Lyman front globe with inserts. It is a serious pleasure to shoot.~Muir
 
I also like 'quarter-bores', and have a few. One of them is this one,

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That I traded a TCR Aristocrat for

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I then traded the Unertl on the Martini .25 Krag AI for this BSA .22 RF

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Since I originally traded a Ruger No.1 custom-chambered in .300 Weatherby Mag for the Aristocrat, it could be said that I ultimately turned a Ruger No.1 into a Martini target .25-Krag AI and a BSA target .22. Throughout all of the deals, each party felt like they were getting the 'long end of the stick'.

I'm currently trying to figure out what I want to rebore the Martini .25 Krag to. At the moment, I'm leaning towards a .348 Win wildcat I used in a Cape Gun I made - the .416x.348 Win. That cartridge loaded with Hawk's 400-grain bullets is an excellent game cartridge for a rifle that uses a case with a .605"-ish rim like the .45-70 or the .50-90 Sharps or ....

This is wandering a bit wide from the original post, so I'll leave it for now, but I will get in touch if I start a .25-20 project.

Regards,
Paul
 
:oops:I was out in left field when I said .25-20. :oops:

I was thinking .25-21.

The conversion of a Marlin 1895G to .25-20 would be a real feat. I s'pose it could be done, but I'm not the one to do it.

Now the .25-21 or even .25-25 maybe.

.25-20 - No... At least not me.

Paul
 
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