Reloading and Ammunition Limits

Dovebob

Well-Known Member
All,

Following on from the thread about loads for my Swede, I am planning a trip to Reloading Solutions this weekend to get cases, powder, primers and bullets. My FAC allows me to buy a max of 100 rounds for the Swede and keep a max of 150. I have a few factory rounds in the safe but other than that I am out of stock.

I plan to try two different bullets (Flytie has convinced me to try some plastic tipped Hornadays as well as the Nosler partitions that I was planning to use). If these come in 50's I should be ok. However, if they're only for sale in hundreds I might not be able to get both.

I am wondering what counts towards my 100 round purchase limit? I assume that bullets and cases don't count seperately, (i.e. 50 empty cases and 50 bullets doesn't count as 100 rounds). Alternatively, do bullets / cases only count when they are filled, primed and made up into rounds.

I'd be grateful for any advice on this.

Cheers,

Bob
 
All,

Following on from the thread about loads for my Swede, I am planning a trip to Reloading Solutions this weekend to get cases, powder, primers and bullets. My FAC allows me to buy a max of 100 rounds for the Swede and keep a max of 150. I have a few factory rounds in the safe but other than that I am out of stock.

I plan to try two different bullets (Flytie has convinced me to try some plastic tipped Hornadays as well as the Nosler partitions that I was planning to use). If these come in 50's I should be ok. However, if they're only for sale in hundreds I might not be able to get both.

I am wondering what counts towards my 100 round purchase limit? I assume that bullets and cases don't count seperately, (i.e. 50 empty cases and 50 bullets doesn't count as 100 rounds). Alternatively, do bullets / cases only count when they are filled, primed and made up into rounds.

I'd be grateful for any advice on this.

Cheers,

Bob
Primed case will count as ammunition - so do not fit primer!
'Expanding missiles' - AKA bullets, you should have separate entry for this, again not ammunition But has a separate agreed limit.
Hope this helps!
 
Primed case will count as ammunition - so do not fit primer!
'Expanding missiles' - AKA bullets, you should have separate entry for this, again not ammunition But has a separate agreed limit.
Hope this helps!

I don't think that empty but primed cases will count as ammunition. The HO Guidance specifically mentions only 'assembled ammunition' as counting:

2.9

It will be noted
that the definition of ammunition does
not include ingredients and components
of ammunition; it is only assembled
ammunition that is controlled under the
Act, not component parts. Empty cartridge
cases, for example, are not “ammunition”.

Many force FLDs will not, or are unwilling to, list expanding missiles as separate from ammunition so they might not make another entry. It's a good reason to go back and request a decent increase in the overall holding to take account of expanding bullets for reloading.

Possess 250, acquire 200 are mentioned in the HO Guidance Ch 13.23 & 24 as reasonable quantities for CF rifles. Double that to 500/400 should be reasonable for a handloader.

For the OP: At the moment expanding missiles (bullets) will count towards your possess and acquire ammunition totals but cases will not.
 
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I don't think that empty but primed cases will count as ammunition. The HO Guidance specifically mentions only 'assembled ammunition' as counting:

2.9

It will be noted
that the definition of ammunition does
not include ingredients and components
of ammunition; it is only assembled
ammunition that is controlled under the
Act, not component parts. Empty cartridge
cases, for example, are not “ammunition”.

Many force FLDs will not, or are unwilling to, list expanding missiles as separate from ammunition so they might not make another entry. It's a good reason to go back and request a decent increase in the overall holding to take account of expanding bullets for reloading.

Possess 250, acquire 200 are mentioned in the HO Guidance Ch 13.23 & 24 as reasonable quantities for CF rifles. Double that to 500/400 should be reasonable for a handloader.

For the OP: At the moment expanding missiles (bullets) will count towards your possess and acquire ammunition totals but cases will not.

I bow to the expert. Up to you if you feel you wish to risk it then... depends upon how you define 'assembled' then, personally I do not keep primed cases around.
 
I bow to the expert. Up to you if you feel you wish to risk it then... depends upon how you define 'assembled' then, personally I do not keep primed cases around.

Ha! :cool::D No 'expert' here sir, but I did once ask the firearms dept manager if sized and primed cases would count towards my total. His reply was consistant with mine in that they did not as they were not completely assembled rounds. Of course we all know how consistant FLDs are thoughout the land :rolleyes: so YMMV. If you don't want to interpret the HO Guidance in the same way then I'm sure the issuing FLD will oblige with an answer - maybe! ;) Might be interesting to hear how others have been informed with this one?

Ditto for the separate listing of expanding bullets and 'complete' ammunition. The HO Guidance actually seems to point towards listing expanding bullets for handloaders in addition to ammunition, although again it's not 100% clear:

4.5
.........................
the shooter’s firearm certificate or visitor’s
permit must be conditioned to include
expanding ammunition and, for home
loaders, the bullets for such ammunition.

Straightforward? Or maybe not?
 
Ha! :cool::D No 'expert' here sir, but I did once ask the firearms dept manager if sized and primed cases would count towards my total. His reply was consistant with mine in that they did not as they were not completely assembled rounds. Of course we all know how consistant FLDs are thoughout the land :rolleyes: so YMMV. If you don't want to interpret the HO Guidance in the same way then I'm sure the issuing FLD will oblige with an answer - maybe! ;) Might be interesting to hear how others have been informed with this one?

Ditto for the separate listing of expanding bullets and 'complete' ammunition. The HO Guidance actually seems to point towards listing expanding bullets for handloaders in addition to ammunition, although again it's not 100% clear:

4.5
.........................
the shooter’s firearm certificate or visitor’s
permit must be conditioned to include
expanding ammunition and, for home
loaders, the bullets for such ammunition.

Straightforward? Or maybe not?

Its all a little grey...Locals here said that primed case here would count, the guidance is a little ambiguous!:)
Plod play their own game, no damn consistency..
 
Considering you are a reloader your limits seem very low.

I have limits of buy 200, carry 500.

I would invest in a variation and increase your quantities. When you let them know you reload they are usually alright about the increases. Mine were at any rate.
 
Considering you are a reloader your limits seem very low.

I have limits of buy 200, carry 500.

I would invest in a variation and increase your quantities. When you let them know you reload they are usually alright about the increases. Mine were at any rate.
where i live its a condition not a variation so no charge
 
I believe there is case law that establishes primed cartridge cases ARE considered as loaded ammunition.
Beware.
 
Bob

This has been an interesting thread to follow.

I just have limits on how much ammo I can acquire/possess. I have a separate condition allowing me to possess/use expanding ammunition but no separate limits attached to it.

I always understood that expanding bullets (just bullets, not assembled rounds) still counted against the quantity you are allowed to possess, so it's been interesting to read the guidance.

Last time I went to see Aftab they didn't enter the bullets on my ticket but they did enter them on (if I recall correctly) three separate registers that they keep :eek:. I specifically queried them on why they didn't enter them on my ticket but they said they didn't have to. Other bullet sources in Wiltshire have always entered them on my ticket.

I have purchase 200, possess 400 for my .308 and purchase 100, possess 200 for my .243.

Nothing so consistent as inconsistency ;)

willie_gunn
 
I just have limits on how much ammo I can acquire/possess. I have a separate condition allowing me to possess/use expanding ammunition but no separate limits attached to it.

That 'use of expanding ammunition' condition that was cobbled together post-Dunblane, is the one that catches quite a lot of FAC holders out if they believe it then covers them for any of the clauses on it without having a covering condition against the firearm.

Some interesting insights on ammunition quantities being imposed around the country are on this thread: http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?14261-Question-for-Home-Loaders
 
I believe there is case law that establishes primed cartridge cases ARE considered as loaded ammunition.
Beware.

Any info on that? Not doubting you, but how about this for a thought - "Blank cartridges not exceeding 1 inch in diameter are also exempt from the certification procedure." (HO Guidance).

Would there be any legal distinction between a primed but otherwise unloaded cartridge case and a blank cartridge? How about a homeloaded primed, powder filled and crimped, cartridge case - would that be any different from a shop-bought blank round? Provided it didn't contain a projectile, missile, call-it-what-you-will, (apart from head that is :D), does it qualify as 'ammunition' for the purposes of the FAC?

Just thinking out loud here.
 
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That 'use of expanding ammunition' condition that was cobbled together post-Dunblane, is the one that catches quite a lot of FAC holders out if they believe it then covers them for any of the clauses on it without having a covering condition against the firearm.

Orion

I'm not quite sure I follow.

The condition states "The certificate holder may possess, purchase or acquire expanding ammunition, or the missiles of such ammunition, in the calibres authorised by this certificate, and only in connection with.....".

Section 1 defines the firearms possessed, or authorised to be purchased or acquired, in the various calibres, and in Section 2 it defines "Ammunition, including expanding ammunition and expanding missiles" in terms of the quantities authorised to be purchased/acquired and possessed against the relevant calibres.

How could you be caught out?

willie_gunn
 
I have 5 centre-fire rifles and can purchase 300 bullets or missiles at any one time for any or all of these rifles.
I can also possess 500 again of each calibre if I wish.

Page 2 condition 2 states :-
2 Ammunition including expanding ammunition and expanding missiles.
i Maximum quantity authorised to be possessed at any one time. [all shown as 500]

Dealers I use all enter the missiles purchased.
100 and 150 are too small an amount for ANY re-loader.

HWH.
 
All,

Thank you for all your replies on this. It looks like I need to be careful. If I buy only one box of 100 bullets I will be able to stay within my max limit.

What also seems clear is I need to apply to raise my limits for buying and keeping ammunition. My FAC is my first and I have only just started to reload. The limits I have are what I applied for. I want to get one or two variations to my ticket so I will discuss these with my FLO (who is a very nice chap) and will hopefully sort everything with one application.

Cheers,

Bob
 
its stupid rules. say you have buy 100 keep 200 then you go into a shop you can only buy 100 full rounds no matter if there expanding or fmj.

yet if you just want the bullets themself you can buy as many target bullets as you want ie amax...
but if you want to buy expanding bullets ie.. vmax you can only buy to your ammo of 100. some silly rules i think.

the rfd dont have to write the bullets on your ticket inless there full rounds he dont even write the expanding bullets on your ticket but he will keep a long of them in his book.
i do think its good to keep your own record so you can put forward your use at a time you want to add to your ticket.

or when it comes to renewing your ticket. it shows you have been buying the ammo to use then.

i would have a work with your flo and say you make the trip to reloading as thats the only place you can get a nice amount of them.
tell him traveling down there to get 100 at a time isnt very good.

and that if you need to buy different packs of bullets you cant because of the tight limit you have on your ticket.

they will change it. i only have buy 200 keep 250 for my cf rifles. but as i reload for them and as you no 222 and 22/250 use the same heads really its buy 400 keep 500.

shame i will lose that amount now 222 has gone. but never mind i think 200 is more then enough. well for me it is. but for you wanting to stock up i would ask for buy 500 keep 600
 
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the rfd dont have to write the bullets on your ticket inless there full rounds he dont even write the expanding bullets on your ticket but he will keep a long of them in his book.
i do think its good to keep your own record so you can put forward your use at a time you want to add to your ticket.

Jay, I live in the same area as you and all the RFD's I have used have been told to write the amount of expanding missiles, not just fully made up rounds, onto FAC's! It has always been done so on my ticket.

The weird thing is that if you put in for a variation, everything written onto your FAC by an RFD disappears, effectively leaving you with a clean sheet. No RFD would realise you had reached or exceeded your limit. Once again we are trusted to behave sensibly in one way, but are hamstrung in others :doh:

ft
 
How could you be caught out?

willie gunn,

The 'standard' expanding ammo condition that is applied by many forces to allow FAC holders to possess prohibited S.5 ammo or missiles is a 'catch-all', ill-thought out piece of legalese that should read, (according to the template in the HO Guidance):

The certificate holder may possess,
purchase or acquire expanding ammunition,
or the missiles of such ammunition, in the
calibres authorised by this certificate and
use only in connection with:
(a) the lawful shooting of deer;
(b) the shooting of vermin or, in
connection with the management of
any estate, other wildlife;
(c) the humane killing of animals;
(d) the shooting of animals for the
protection of other animals or humans.

(or some variation thereof depending on the whim of the FLD!)

The problem arises where a firearm is conditioned for, say, deer only, and yet at first glance the condition above allows the same ammo to be used on 'vermin' and 'other wildlife'. It's come up on here a few times where FAC holders believe that they have a form of AOLQ condition by way of the expanding ammo condition, but it then turns out that their rifle quarry use is in fact quite tightly restricted.

Not seeking to teach Granny how to suck eggs etc., but a bit of a re-hash regarding the introduction of this condition for those who may not have held FACs at the time:

Post-Dunblane our lords & masters decided in their wisdom to not only to make all pistols/handguns prohibited S.5 firearms, but also the expanding ammunition for them. Unfortunately they made all expanding ammo S.5, which created a bit of an immediate problem for those involved in sporting rifle shooting. To cover possession for all lawful uses the current condition was rushed into being and many of us had to have our FACs amended at the time to ensure we stayed on the right side of the law.

Since then expanding ammo and 'missiles/bullets' have in some way or other created problems for many of us because, yet again, there is no continuity of application by the various forces around the country - and it's all down to their passing from an uncontrolled status to overnight becoming so dangerous that they are classified as prohibited! :rolleyes:
 
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Hmmm well I have encounterd RFD's who do enter them on ticket and those who don't. A lot depends on which force issues the RFD's ticket it seems as some say they have to do others don't. Personally I don't think the Police have any intention in getting it sorted out after all if they did then they would lose one chance at being awkward and they do seem to LOVE being stupid and awkward :rolleyes:.
 
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