Are the Ranges of all the Various Types of Deer Pushing Further and Further Out.

Trufflehunting

Well-Known Member
Hi there
As in the case of Muntjac Are the Ranges of all the Various Types of Deer Pushing Further and Further out.
We have a heard of Fallow not to far away. but as far as i know they dont push out into the surounding area. (perhaps they are shot hard)
I got the impression from various posts that over the country for example Reds, and Fallow are extending there ranges.
Is this the case, what are your thoughts.
Here in north yorkshire in the seventies we did not have any roe, now they are everywhere.
All the Best
Trufflehunting
 
Fallow are extending their domain round here.
I saw one a couple of miles away over the summer where I had never seen one for the past 3 years of stalking and likewise one walked into the driveway this winter when it was really cold, there is a wood opposite.
There are Fallow 3-4 miles away on the other side of the M5 though.
The farmer in whose land I shoot said he had not seen deer on his land until 5 years ago.
 
Deer are generally spreading their ranges, roe and muntjac spread the fastest from existing populations and Ifor Williams has undoubtedly helped here and there, sika, reds and fallow being mostly herd animals seem to spread more slowly. You might see younger males pushed out now again but obviously until some females turn up they are not going to become established. As an example of this in my area there are about 1,000 fallow in the Elwy valley but very few more than a couple of miles outside that immediate area and what animals you do see tend to be young males.

A good place to look is the British Deer Society website where there are maps for each species showing the spread from 2000 to 2007 and some are very significant. Muntjac are moving north and west, roe are present on much of the UK mainland now, and they will soon fill in the gaps. Reds are spreading most rapidly in the Midlands/East Anglia and sika/fallow seem to be spreading least from established areas and often seem to take some time to go very much further afield.

The spread of deer is often slow in areas where fox/rabbit lampers are operating or near population centres where poaching is rife. we had a few roe turning up in 2007 but they seemed to have gone now and it is thought that lampers have had a lot to do with that.
 
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I have just had a look at these maps on the BDS web page. If accurate it shows a marked push North by Muntjac, which has been commented on here previously. As I have some stalking a matter of 5 miles or so from the Scottish/English border, with a bit of luck we may see their arrival in the next decade.
 
I dont know if they are but hope so as i know of fallow 10 miles or less away from my farm and have heard of muntjac about the same distance away. However I very much doubt fallow will be here anytime soon as I feel lampers would slow down what little progress they would make but I would love to see muntjac in the next 10 years or so. Heres hoping :thumb:

George
 
I haven't seen any other species of deer around the area where I live, but I have noticed Roe numbers increasing steadily. I'm still waiting to see my first Muntjac. I have heard that they are in Lancashire but I have not had any confirmed sightings.
 
There is talk of a red stag shot on FC ground just outside Hawick,the closest reds would over in D&G,so along way from home,forest of AE has been mentioned as where it came from not sure how this is known.......

Nell
 
Fallow deer near me don't seem to spread out they stick to high ground moor + large forestry woodland blocks plenty of good woodland lower down but they never seem interested plenty of Roe on low ground and on high ground occasional Red in the area but as usual when people see a new species about they get shot on sight so don't get established
 
In general most deer are increasing their range, all be it slowly in some instances, such as CWD which have a very slow pace of establishing themselves as a rule.

With any of the deer species the biggest problem they have in most of England is the expanding road system, housing and railway lines. These barriers stop many species expanding.
 
Malc I've read that the motorway system and railways bankings are actually spreading certain species of deer such as muntjac because these often tree lined routes are not disturbed by the public.
No doubt deer are spreading to new areas but personally I am sceptical of some of the maps produced by the likes of the deer initiative because they rely upon information supplied. Often this information or dis-information comes from people with a sense of humour. I saw one map showing red deer in a village local to me where the last deer of any sort walked the earth at least 200 years ago, but there is still a pub called the Buck Inn and another named the White Hart.
 
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True railway lines are/can be a form of tunnel for Munties, but I refer to other species, in particular Fallow, Roe and Sika. In West Sussex one of my areas is surrounded by Munties and yet one only finds, so I have been told as I have yet to see one, the odd one. The railway and roads keep them off. There are no Fallow on one side, and yet the other is loaded.

We did see one Fallow pricket this past year, the first seen for 12 years!!

So I agree with your comment, but they are I feel a significant barrier.

ATB

Sikamalc
 
I don't disagree with you there Malc as regards being a significant barrier, the new roads around where I live are a significant barrier to me never mind any wildlife. I used to be able to walk for miles without crossing a main road. I would in years gone by walk several miles down one river bank and return up the other river bank when walking the dog. Now it is impossible for me to take the same route without the need to cross a dual carriageway of motorway proportions and traffic levels several times. Just as well that there are no deer in my area.
 
I once saw a muntjack deer north of inverness, near tain , to be exact . This was at least seven years ago now. At the time i said wtf is that. a hare wi horns!! It wasnt til i did my dcs 1 a few years later that i realized what it was.Probably old ifor williams's doing, but i dont know, never stalked that area.
 
Not far from me is Margam park which has been a deer park for for over 200 years. Fallow have successfully colonised the adjacent FC land and some local farms, but unfortunately they have not managed to get any further mainly down to local poaching and the FC policy.

There are farmers who know they are loosing animals to poachers every week, shotguns, snares, dogs, 22 rimmys and small center fire rifles. In some cases even though the police do what they can, some farmers do not report it because of the fear that the poachers will deliberately target their farms and stock in revenge ( there are some nasty types doing the poaching). As far as the FC are concerned I was told by a ranger a few years back that if they saw deer in any areas where they had not been seen before, the policy was to exterminate them to keep "the blocks clear".

There is some very good ground around here which is just screeming out for animals. Ivor Williams has been seen in the area and rumours of roe and munties are flying around, but between the poaching and FC there is not much hope of anything establishing or spreading. Put it this way in the 200 years since Margam park was opened you'd be lucky to see an animal more than 5 miles away from the park.

Ade
 
I get the feeling that if recruitment to any herd is progressive and not reduced by too much hard shooting, (I'm basing my thoughts on the larger deer species such as Fallow, Sika and Reds), then they will require to expand their territory.

From what little I know, Fallow have a periodic circuit where they pass on to the next pit-stop - dependent on the freedom of movement. In some cases where the numbers are small I suspect that they just move from one patch to the other, night and day movement. If they get shot hard then there's no need to expand as the territory is known and the grub is there.
It sounds to me that elusive as they can be, they are certainly successful in some areas.

Now that's a guess from far away, but I have watched, listened, and dealt with a few over the years in various counties.

Sika spikers are promiscuous and during the rut they will not hang around waiting, but will happily head off in search of possible 'red-light' areas in the hopes of picking up a Sika or Red hind. Just like Mink - one year you hear rumours, then the next they are definitely seen.

As for Red stags - they will travel long distances after they 'break out' and will probably stop, hoping, once they encounter the whiff of feremones in the air, but the only problem we have in Scotland is that in some places they get shot hard and in others they are difficult to come to grips-with.

As you all know, Roe deer are very dependent on territorial environment. Up here they struggle very hard. The weather and lack of roe food variety, as-well-as suitable sized cover make for hard living, and they just do not cope very well with liver fluke which is prevalent up in these parts. Now and then during a decent couple of years there will be sightings of yearlings, but unfortunately, because they generally stick to the lower ground in this part of the West at least, they are prone to coastal traffic at night.
A lack of acorns, beechmast and bramble is probably a significant factor.
 
there is no doubt that deer are spreading their ranges.

Each year for the past 3 years I have shot a Sika spiker, I was out a run with the spotlight the other night and spotted a Sika hind. Thats them here for sure now.

I think the way the countryside is managed today has encouraged deer to move, there are alot more farms now puting more and more of there fields into set aside, perfect for migrating Roe.

Also, alot more Estates are puting in small forestry blocks whether it be evergreens or native hardwoods and dropping fences after the scheme is out of grant restrictions.
 
I have just had a look at these maps on the BDS web page. If accurate it shows a marked push North by Muntjac, which has been commented on here previously. As I have some stalking a matter of 5 miles or so from the Scottish/English border, with a bit of luck we may see their arrival in the next decade.

The only thing you have to bear in mind with the maps is that they only indicate a recorded presence and this gives no indication of density, there could have been just one sighting or there might be a population, you just don't know.

You also have to allow for the odd mischievous report (or non-report) and misidentification as many inexperienced recorders would not be totally accurate in identifying species. I'd be suspicious of isolated single "squares" with a species in it but there are clear patterns of expansion on the maps that give a good guide as to where deer currently are and where they might be expected to appear.

I think that there have been some reports of muntjac north of the border and they were reported in the Carlisle area some years ago.
 
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Dan - two Sika have been shot on Applecross in the last five years. They have also been seen South of Lochcarron, and just to the North, so they are definitely on the move. The point now remains is whether they will have Sika hinds skulking about to breed-with, or if they will hybridise with the reds. They do get shot on sight - given a chance - but I have a feeling that the flood-tide will get larger.

On a sideline, and I apologise for commenting outside the thread, Mink are now on our coast. One was killed on the road a couple of months ago.

Again, Dan, you are correct as regards new cover being instated which was not intended as such, but provides channels of movement for migrating deer. It might be that the creature which foresters probably hate most is being nurtured by their very actions in providing new tree cover.

It now remains to be seen if Munjac will be able to adapt and move into new environments. Sika in Southern Ireland have in some cases become adapted to the hill in some areas where there is sufficient heather cover, and Roe will adapt to scrubby shorelines with long bracken and rocks.
 
Here in my part of East Yorkshire the Roe did not really appear until the early Seventies, now they are all over. I live in a city and was watching a roebuck 50 yards from the bottom of my garden on Christmas eve (on a railway embankment), like foxes they are definately adapting to life in an urban environment.
 
East staffs/warwick border, munties and a few roe on my shoots and if information from farm worker is correct 1 fallow buck and 4 does seen just after harvest time.
 
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