Syndicate Caution

DL

Well-Known Member
It's about that time of year when guys start to look for syndicate places.

The deer stalking community is a pretty small place at the end of the day, and it is common place for word to get around about how syndicates have fared.

Gents - Please, Please be careful, and look after your hard earned. It's best to speak to people who have been members in the past to gain an appreciation for how fairly the operation is run, and also to enquire into the cull figures

There have been some awful accounts - not only the ground in Lanarkshire, which was highlighted on this forum - where there were dozens of members unaware of each other, but also of six guys paying a grand each towards 1200a, and not getting the opportunity at deer as they could reasonably expect.

Best of luck in the coming season.
 
It is time and adverts will apear but i think the FC for one will start to rethink there aproach after all its public ground and paying for it once is bad enough but to pay for it twice and three times is just not on.;) Tread with care as DL says.
 
It's about that time of year when guys start to look for syndicate places.

The deer stalking community is a pretty small place at the end of the day, and it is common place for word to get around about how syndicates have fared.

Gents - Please, Please be careful, and look after your hard earned. It's best to speak to people who have been members in the past to gain an appreciation for how fairly the operation is run, and also to enquire into the cull figures

There have been some awful accounts - not only the ground in Lanarkshire, which was highlighted on this forum - where there were dozens of members unaware of each other, but also of six guys paying a grand each towards 1200a, and not getting the opportunity at deer as they could reasonably expect.

Best of luck in the coming season.

I'm one of the aforementioned....Four are off the forum, none of them nor l are happy whatsoever.

Complete waste of money....

Tom
 
I'm one of the aforementioned....Four are off the forum, none of them nor l are happy whatsoever.

Complete waste of money....

Tom

Its a hard pill to swallow being stuffed paying stalking fees ,most of us here have probably learned the hard way and coughed out brass for little or nowt, Personally it grieves me seeing it happen but unfortunately it does because there are loads out there waiting for the flock of sheep to graze on.

Most novices are so keen to get a patch they dont or arnt capable of assessing what deer is on the land and if its value for money.

All I will say if your not sure ask one of the more long standing members on here who have the nonse to see you dont get stuffed most of us here would be only to pleased to help and advise.
So you havent any excuse now have you.:D
Kind Regards
Stu
 
Mannlicher i have a small patch i would like you to look at i have been asked four 300 Pounds and it is only 200 acre what do i look for and is it worth the money .:rofl: No one will do that mate not a chance i am afraid they will just need to learn the hard way. Go on a syndicate and get stuffed up the ass on most occasions. PS anyone on forestry ground that can go from one plot to anouther check it has been allowed by the commison because if you dont your are infact trespassing with a firearm. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
 
Mannlicher i have a small patch i would like you to look at i have been asked four 300 Pounds and it is only 200 acre what do i look for and is it worth the money .:rofl: No one will do that mate not a chance i am afraid they will just need to learn the hard way. Go on a syndicate and get stuffed up the ass on most occasions. PS anyone on forestry ground that can go from one plot to anouther check it has been allowed by the commison because if you dont your are infact trespassing with a firearm. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

David I am aware that your arse squeaks and groans like an old litchfield gate at IONA Priory and who mentioned that there was a need to take a firearm to see if there is evidence of deer on the land .
Forestry Commision land is tax payers property with access to all and some of us are prepared to help novices from not being stuffed and know what to look for.
Give your arse a spray David that WD40s not all that expensive:rofl:
 
Guys,
I would also like to add, be sensible if you are bidding for stalking as the last syndicate i was in which had some nice ground and very sensible gentlemen from north and south of the border. On renewal it went for crazy money to a south of the border syndicate. The commision always have the right to send in there guys if Deer numbers are to high and you can bet that the time taken between syndicates the Rangers were in, also the Night shooting carried out against our wishes during our last winter should have told our syndicate that we were not getting a renewal. I was a member for 5 years and we always shot our Cull plus some more.

Be careful Dalkur
 
What i am talking abut is the adverts saying have access to 8 10 20.000 acre of FC ground if you dont do the full set of tests and risk assement on each plot you might not be legal on there.
 
Having just abandoned the process of tendering for a piece of FC land I think it is worth adding that:

Unless you have DMQ LEVEL 2 you will not be allowed to stalk on FC ground unless accompanied by someone on the lease who has the qualification. If you do not have Level1 you will not be allowed on the lease.

You cannot take guests and no-one can shoot unless named on the lease.

If you are working to get Level2 and want to get an authorised witness stalk on your ground, you would need your named leasee (with DMQ LEVEL2) and the accredited witness and you.

This only applies if your DMQ Level 2 lease member is not accredited of course but it outlines what a crock of shite it is for essentially a green desert.

I may have misinterpreted the rules but hopefully not. VOTE WITH YOUR FEET AND MONEY, The FC is a public body which should mean civil servants not dictators. All public bodies have stopped being acountable and now only operate to opress us. The new FC rules are draconian and uncalled for the sooner it gets privatised the better.

Mini rant over.
 
Spot on:D
With the exception that any DSC2 level holder at present can stand witness for two stalks on the old blue portfolio which will change when the designated time on the portfolio elapses

The question I pose in all this there are what 3200 DSC2 holders of which are made up of forest employees as a condition of the job and other professional individuals and a considerable percentage of the holders who are at an age that have retired from stalking so what percentage of the 3200 remains available to be on and actually working a lease, Not a lot in my view.

I would not want to take on a lease then try to find another 5 rifles with DSC2 to fill out a 6 rifle lease thats for sure unless the places were spoken for beforehand. Not an easy thing to do

Whos shot themselves in the foot then
Kind Regards
Stu
 
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Stu you are right of coarse with your stats not very clear just like every thig else at this moment in the FC .Now lets suppose you are correct the FC have not shot them selves in the foot as you discribe but infact gave them selves a garanteed position in the forseable future.With 12,000 hes to be planted every year for the next 10 years under the CSGN scheme and others. The governemt wil need to pay commision rangers contractors millions of pounds to take up the short fall of none trained deer stalkers and the bosses will be running it all in a transparant manner. The only people shooting there self in the foot is the MSP,s who keep signing bits of new legislation so that it makes it harder for a standard hard working tax payer to stalk on public ground.
PLEASE REMEBER ONLY 17% OF THE NATIONAL FOREST IS GIVEN OUT TO LEASES.;)
 
At the risk of being labeled a pessimist :rolleyes: perhaps the new rules for the FC leases is planned to stop the recreational stalking and once there are not enough takers then they can simply place pest controllers to remove the pests, i.e deer, and go to parliment and state that deer stalking is dieing so is no longer a good reason to posses a firearm.

As I don't trust the powers that be I would not put it past them. They have changed rules of reloading supplies so restricting the supply and forcing the prices up to ridiculas levels. Factory ammunition will soon be mortagable with the prices. Powder storage restrictions. One local shop has been told he can hold 12lbs and no more. Lunacy.
 
Stu you are right of coarse with your stats not very clear just like every thig else at this moment in the FC .Now lets suppose you are correct the FC have not shot them selves in the foot as you discribe but infact gave them selves a garanteed position in the forseable future.With 12,000 hes to be planted every year for the next 10 years under the CSGN scheme and others. The governemt wil need to pay commision rangers contractors millions of pounds to take up the short fall of none trained deer stalkers and the bosses will be running it all in a transparant manner. The only people shooting there self in the foot is the MSP,s who keep signing bits of new legislation so that it makes it harder for a standard hard working tax payer to stalk on public ground.
PLEASE REMEBER ONLY 17% OF THE NATIONAL FOREST IS GIVEN OUT TO LEASES.;)

That comment is mere supposition David and you may well be correct in what you say.
In my view The F.C are failing in both forestry protection as well as there duties to the tax payer of which we as deer managers foresee whats happening.

I understand why they are imposing such restrictions on those controlling deer, its because we are living in a suing society ,If you fart and someone turns the nose up you get sued today thats fact, and as a government body the jobsworth boys are out in force to show to the tax payer that they have taken all the steps possible to protect them by engaging trained hunters out in the forest.


The general idea of training is a good one, but has major flaws in it.
At one time forest rangers would take out novice stalkers for a fee and the more these novices went out the more they became competent.

As we all know Defra have reduced funding to the likes of the F.C and others and you cant blame the F.C for having to re deploy those rangers to other duties, and financial restraints on employing labour means more has to come from the private sector.

To do the job that rangers used to do they cant let any Tom Dick or Harry wander round with a High Velocity Rifle can they? so a standard needs to be acceptable , which is now accepted and known as the DSC2.

Now this is were they system fails in that insufficient holders are available to fill those places on a lease as part of the conditions, so what needs to be looked at is an Exception to those who havent got the DSC2 over a period of time In my view the set period isnt long enough a period as I have personally found this a stumbling block in the past.

The way Forward (In my View)

Those who only are DSC1 registered but are on the lease should also be on a register with the F.C who can keep an up todate record of progression of those individuals and were a DSC2 candidate is lacking through whatever reason further assistance should be made available to complete.

It may be that the DSC2 candidate is involved in a syndicate that not a lot of deer are present on the ground ,and a further assistance from the F.C would be to place them with other syndicate members elseware so that the portfolio can be completed .

There are numerous reasons as to why candidates arnt completing the portfolio in time, it may be that there mentor or mentors have commitments that clash with possible arrangements, but the emphasis needs to be in more involvement in further training by the F.C afterall we are doing thierjob for them for nowt I might add ,Something they cant afford not for us to do it would as you say cost them millions to control the deer and protect the trees from damage thats fact.

Just my take on how things should progress by imposing conditions and restrictions on the leases as they stand they could not pay me enough money never mind me paying them.

Kind regards
Stuart
 
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All they need to do is release more land for leasing. Simple reduce the cost significantly and people with be able to channel the money into passing the dmq. But at this moment people are doing all the governemt ask and then after they get it all correct they are then to top it all getting ripped off at the end of it. were is the incentive in that. Before any one asks why would FC reduce lease fee,s simple at the moment the FC just for killing deer and nothing else (after the lease money is in) cost the tax payer 5.7 mil. The fact is if more land was realesed the cost could be seariously reduced. I find there are plenty out there willing to do a good job but not at the current rip off prices by the fc or the greedy chaps with mulitple leases.

Rant over
 
Guys,
I would stress that as an Approved Witness who is willing to help any fellow stalker the chances of me joining a F.C Lease again is very slim. The last lease i was involved with we lost after 5 years of reliable safe shooting meeting our cull plan targets and not having any issues. Loyalty is a 2 way thing but Cash seems to have got into everything nowadys.

Dalkur
 
Guys,
I would stress that as an Approved Witness who is willing to help any fellow stalker the chances of me joining a F.C Lease again is very slim. The last lease i was involved with we lost after 5 years of reliable safe shooting meeting our cull plan targets and not having any issues. Loyalty is a 2 way thing but Cash seems to have got into everything nowadys.

Dalkur

seems to me there is a lot of DSC2 disgruntled stalkers out here so how many of the registered 3200 less employees being hobby stalkers have had their feather ruffled and dont wish to get in that position again, I have to say it it seems that every other one I have spoken to are agrieved. The F.C will be getting a firm resolve of clients of no takers on their leases if they arnt carefull.;)
 
MS, are you sayin that stalkers who don,t have a DSC2 are not good enough to make FC Rangers, what about deer managers on private estates who don,t have DSC2 are they doing a sxxt job then.
Its no good anybody on here complaining about "needing" these money making qualifications its the bodies you support that want them.
 
I am not saying that at all Taff .What I am saying is that the F.C have set rules that all of us have to jump through the hoops to achieve, I am sure there are guys out there who are more than competent but unfortunately magic paper rules in all aspects of society today its a fact of life we all have to accept, neither do I think its right its just how it is mate.
 
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