Letting unshot deer wander away

BRACES of Bristol - Sauer 100 XTA Stainless Package
Heym SR20

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
I was reading an article about shooting Chamois in Austria a few days ago that got me thinking. It commented that the norm in Austria is after the shot to wait until the rest of the herd has moved away completely out of sight before the hunters go up to the dead animal. The theory being that Chamois are never educated to the sound of a shot being associated with man.

Certainly I have noticed with both red and roe that other beasts just hang about and are not too concerned about the sound of a shot, but only run off once they see / smell you.

I tend to leave a beast for a few minutes before approaching, but letting everything else calm down does make sense to me as next time, hopefully they will be not too spooky!

Any comments???
 
I thought its how it is done in the UK as well. I am sure I have seen it in one of the "Best Practice" guidance somewhere or was told on level 1 course. I do it anyway.
 
Likewise - I've always waited until any other deer move off. With a moderator fitted I've noticed that the deer seem to hang around more, or are more inclined to come back to the area after the shot, perhaps because they can't tell the direction from which the shot came?

Either way, I like to wait for the deer to disappear before I go up to the shot beast.

willie_gunn
 
Level one and best practice states you should allow the remaining deer to move away from the area!
 
Yes agreed, I have always let any deer move away before breaking cover to retrieve the shot beast.
 
Neither Level 1 nor Best Practice says what to do about deer that wander into the area after the shot. A not uncommon occurence now that we're all using suppressors.

I've doubled my takings on more than one occasion by just sitting tight for a few minutes and keeping alert. :zzz:
 
I had forgotten all about it. One of those habits which were instilled into me from the very beginning and I just do it as a matter of course. Try not to educate the deer into associating the sound of a shot - or the sight of humans - with the unusual behaviour - death - of one of their number.

Bearing in mind the differences in climate and terrain, it was also a good tactic to try and not further stress the beasts by scaring them willy-nilly out into the upper hill elements in hard weather, although in some conditions the beasts appear to reciognize that the killing is done and they will retreat and watch - sometimes within medium shooting distance - whilst the gralloching is going on.

As my mentor always said, "The more you live, the more you'll see".
Ken.
 
Well some times its ok but if the others sit down to chew there cud you might be in for a long wait . So take your beast wait the ten minutes and then if deer havnt moved walk up slow and give them a chance to move away with out to much alarm.
 
Funny I was thinking about this just the other day as I shot a hind that had come out with a wee stag (sika) and I was wondering if the stag associated the shot with danger. The situation was a little different as the hind, when shot, ran towards the stag which then jumped back into the forest while the hind dropped before she made it into the forest, neither of them saw me. I suspect that the stag ran because he saw the hind run as I saw him go back into the forest and it took him longer than would have been the case if he had just reacted directly to the shot, hence my reading that he didn't run until he saw the hind run. So, now I'm wondering if he has assocaited the bang with all the running or if he just put it down to a bit of normal running about with no particular danger or risk.
 
caorach - - It always seemed to me that it would be wrong if I said that stags were thick, but they definitely appear to take the lead from the hinds whenever there are hinds present.

In answer to other comments on the question as to why we might leave other deer to walk away sparks a link to a lot of today's attitude towards deer management - or the enforced lack of it. Maybe just as well that I now live on the occasional edges and shoot the odd one or two.

It was grand in the days of proper herd management, to stalk in and watch whilst we picked out the beasts to be culled, decided on the shooting tactic, usualy the furthest away first if they presented an opportunity, did the shooting, then watched whilst the remaining members of the parcel sorted themselves out and strung away uphill.

Of course - no two days are the same and you will get family yearlings and young staggies who will linger or even return; nothing is set in stone, but you simply do the best you can.

Now if - as might have been read on another thread - a small parcel of hinds has been raiding gardens and crofting plots - and inadvertently training their calves to do so as well - then I, like many's another professional was perfectly capable of laying the lot on the deck in short order.

Killing is not so difficult - selective management and getting the beast to be culled clear of others and with a non-injuring or riccochetting backstop is a vastly different kettle of fish.

Ken.
 
Personally I think we give deer far to much credit in the old associated memory stakes. I have adopted both the sit and wait and the do the business then stick you head above the vegetation and get on with the job in hand methods. Without any adverse educational effects.

Are we not fulling into trap of overly anthropomorphising them?
 
lou said:
Are we not fulling into trap of overly anthropomorphising them?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for others but for myself the answer is an unequivocal Yes.. I be not fulling into trap that one.

Once you've done a bit of shooting you do learn that virtually all quarry species cotton-on to the fact that you are to be avoided when you are carrying a gun and ammunition. Of course, they also clearly enjoy taunting you when you're not :-D
 
Richard Parsons said:
Deer learn more about humans than humans learn about deer ....
Click to expand...

This is one of the points Richard Prior makes in his book Humble Pie. We talk about observing deer when we are there, but deer are observing humans all day every day, and they have more incentive to do so, their lives depend on it.

I honestly think that we tend to underestimate animals' capacity to learn, especially those species considered not so bright.

It's maybe not the same as the old adage about shining a lamp at a fox once and only once, perhaps with deer it might take a few encounters to have a cumulative effect but it's pretty much accepted that deer will behave differently in an area where they are being pressured by shooting compared to those that are left alone, so logically would it not be reasonable to assume that they are capable of upping the danger rating they give to humans based on what they observe where they are being more actively stalked?

Alex
 
Well how many times do deer have to hear a shot before they associate it with a man/woman standing close by?

Deer that herd and are several years old must have surely been exposed to this association several times over their lives and yet we still manage to get them in the larder.

As no doubt some on here have also experienced, I have shot deer to see others stepping forward to sniff the dead one as I have been walking in, been gralloching one to have another step out and watch me after undoubtedly hearing the shot and all in the years before moderators were the norm.

Prey animals have a flight reaction stimulated by numerous factors. We see it on every wildlife programme on the TV with predators walking amongst potential food without them hardly batting an eyelid. But the minute that same lion haunches down and starts to stalk, they are all alerted, as some will have survived and seen what comes next. So does body language not play as big a part as the sound then?

I think it is far more than simply hearing a bang and associating it with danger when humans are also present.

And generally we are sneaking up on them without being seen anyway, from hundreds of yards away therefore so what if there is an association, they don't get the chance to do anything about it anyway....
 
jamross65 said:
And generally we are sneaking up on them without being seen anyway, from hundreds of yards away therefore so what if there is an association, they don't get the chance to do anything about it anyway....
Click to expand...

Good point. You're right, it's logical that any association they make between humans, bangs and bad things happening is only going to make a difference to the outcome of a stalk if they actually see you first.
 
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