Is it worth buying a 2nd hand custom rifle?

mallettn

Well-Known Member
Two friends of mine have bought beautiful 2nd hand custom rifles, both saving themselves a few thousand pounds and a long wait.

Sounds good? Well after the initial excitment, including the fun / trials of load development, neither have "bonded" with their new rifles.

Why not? It seems to me to be because they would both have made a number of different decisions if specifying the rifles for themselves. In other words the rifles were not exactly their dream rifles and surely that is what you are trying to create when you go to the expense of buying a custom rifle?

One rifle has now been sold and the other is likely to be sold at some stage.

Hence the question, if considering a custom rifle are you better off getting exactly what you want and having the fun of specifying, the anticipation of the wait, etc... or are there circumstances when a 2nd hand custom is a better bet?

Neal
 
Neal

Hmmm, it depends what floats your boat. I have owned more rifles than I have fingers and I do like window shopping, both on here and generally on the web. However I am limiting my self to two red deer legal rifles as per my gallery. Neither are exactly what I would like, but they have been built up as funds have permitted. I certainly would always entertain offers for them and would look seriously at any custom rifles, new or otherwise.

Owning centre fire rifles is a journey. When I bought my first .243, I didn't know what I know now and I thought I had got a good deal. If I was starting again, I would buy a 'Remington' type rifle and then I can re-barrel and restock it as I feel appropriate.

I know I won't ever ask Calum Ferguson to build me a rifle, but I have looked at his second hand rifles when they have come up. I think each opportunity needs to be looked at on its merits when it comes up which is not a very constructive answer to your question.

Good shopping. JCS
 
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Neal, most look far too space age for me but a friend bought a second hand a Callum Ferguson .22 PPC foxing rifle. I could live with that.

Simon
 
You only have to look on the classified adds on here. There are several very nice custom rifles for sale but they don't seem to be moving. There is a McMillan for £1950 or there abouts, its worth every penny but its chambered in 7mmSTW! if it was a .243 or .308 it would have sold five times over.

A full custom rifle is one persons dream at the time of ordering. If, when that rifle comes up second-hand, it happens to be another persons dream rifle then both are happy bunnies but thats alot of ifs.

If you do buy a 2nd hand custom rifle, make sure you know all about it, some have very specific loading requirements and some have niggley problems, I know of one that was made where you can't get the bolt out without adjusting or removing the stock, not very good on a tightly run range when you are ordered to remove the bolt!

My advice, as always. Buy a Sako in a 'normal/sensible' calibre!

JC
 
Hello Neal, I have owned a custom-built rifle. It was built to my specifications on traditional lines with a walnut stock, but as a working-style rifle rather than something which was just too pretty to use. It comes up like a good shotgun, but with none of the little quirks which some budding owners demand off the riflemaker. The new owner knows its history, he has shot with it in the past - he loves it and the only thing required is to have the butt shortened a little.

And this is the thing. All too often these individual ideas of the costomer don't satisfy the imagined result after all - they do not turn what is after all a rifle - into some dream-machine, no matter how much money you throw at it.

I'd say, handle the rifle. Be sure that the cartridge it uses is well within your capacity to obtain - and consider how much that cartridge will cost. It's best to stick to common cartridge types for ease of purchasing, or resale of the rifle at a later date if you have it at the back of your mind to move on at some stage. Some rifles will be chambered to utilise factory ammo but will convert, (Fireform), the case into an Ackley shape for homeloading. This does not matter as long as the factory ammo will produce good groups.
The rifle should be simple to use, pleasant to the eye, with no little expensive wrinkles to make life complicated for you.

OR - simply as JC275 says - buy a sensible, good quality rifle which uses a commonly-used cartridge with a good reputation. (There will be plenty opinions on the cartridge to use).

Not all rifles made by a bespoke riflemaker are good. The single-handed riflemaker can only provide what you pay-for and he does not have the ability, for the same money, to compete as an individual with the production of a high quality production rifle company such as Sako, whilst I've seen a much more expensive rifle by a so-called respectable rifle-making company give endless problems, then when stripped for examination, be revealed to have one of the cheaper forms of trigger mechanism. The wealthy but trusting owner had been conned because of his assumption that he was buying into a reputable name.

Just be careful, and better still, obtain the help and advice of a shooting friend with plenty of experience who would have a good idea of what to look-for. It's not always so easy to be openly critical in front of the seller, but after all, you are considering parting with a lot of money. A privately made rifle of £1000 might just not match up to a good production rifle for the same money.

Ken.
 
Neal,

I bought a secondhand custom rifle last autumn.

I think it comes down to what you want from the rifle, what's available secondhand at the time you're buying and how much you're willing to pay.

You're probably unlikely to find a second hand custom rifle that is exactly the same specification you would choose if you were having one built from scratch. There is likely to be some compromise. However, you will be paying a lot less than the brand new price. Most custom rifles depreciate signicantly as soon as they become second hand - especially if they are a bit unusal. The market for them is much smaller than, for example, a Sako in a popular calibre.

Only you can decide whether a particular rifle you are looking at is an acceptable compromise between not having your exact spec. but paying significantly less than the new price.

One thing I would suggest if you are thinking of buying secondhand is have a chat with the person who built the rifle in the first place. They will be able to tell you the spec. it was built to and any any other quirks i.e. whether it was designed to shoot a particular weight or type of bullet etc. Ideally, get the builder to inspect it to give you a view on whether its "as built" and how much work its done. This will help you to inform your decision.

One last thing I found when buying secondhand - people have different definitions of "custom". Fuel is expensive these days and I was particularly unhappy about driving over 150 miles to look at what was described and priced as a custom rifle but in fact was an overpriced Remmy 700 with a few aftermarket bits bolted on by the owner.

Cheers,

Bob
 
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I guess it is a bit like women buying shoes in the sale - it is only a bargin if you have a use for it and if it fits.
 
Coarach

I have used many diffrent rifles from top of the range customs to bog standard parker hale and i found that if you match the right ammo with almost any rifle will will probably out shoot yourself.
 
For me no.

If I purchased a custom rifle I want exactly what I want and I want to know exactly how many rounds have been put through it. I also want to know how well it has been looked after. The seller of custom rifles always seem to tell you they have put very few rounds through them and to be honest I am never convinced. I am not even convinced that with good quality factory rifles shooting as well as mine does that your AVERAGE custom job produces accuracy that warrants the additional cost. I have spoken to Callum Ferguson personally and asked him about the accuracy of custom rifles and he told me that if I am getting even close to .5moa consistently that one of his custom hunting rifles will produce no better results.

If I am going to pay £5k for a good quality custom rifle I want to see tangible results and I would insist on sub 0.5moa guaranteed with a proven load suitable for what the rifle is for. Otherwise I will stick to new factory rifles and get them shooting out of their skins with custom loads.
 
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Guys,
Thanks for all the experienced advice. I am not currently looking to purchase a custom rifle, but was curious as a good number of the stalkers on the DMG I shoot with have them. I have effectively followed JC's recommendation as I have a Sako 85 with 20" barrel in 6.5x55 (with Swaro 8x56 and Northstar mod). It is very accurate (especially with homeloads) and to me it handles well, looks good and all works smoothly with a quality feel. I suspect I am not immune to being seduced by a sexy custom piece, but I feel it would be a heart over head decision, especially given the amount I actually shoot and the fact that my shooting is predominately for deer within 200 yards.
Neal
 
If you only shoot deer sized targets at no more than 200yds then a factory CZ rifle is more than capable of performing for you. Obviously we all like the better quality items in life, but don't be fooled into thinking you NEED a custom rifle because you certainly don't. Sako's are an outstanding rifle.
 
Robbosam,
I don't disagree with you, but stalking is a hobby / passion for me so it is best not to ask the need question else I wouldnt have a Sako 85. I think it is more satisfactory to ask oneself "will I still be pleased I spent that money well after the initial glow of acquisition has passed?" The "need" justification should only be used (if absolutely necessary) to persuade one's wife!
Otherwise we would all shoot CZ's and things like custom rifles and the wide range of calibres etc... wouldn't exist. Would be much less to talk about on SD too!
Neal
 
A custom rifle for stalking at the normal ranges found in the U.K is not a NEED it is a WANT. If you have the spare cash a custom rifle is a reasonable expresssion of your individuality. When buying second hand it may just be that the seller is moving from one toy to another just like some folk change cars every year or two. Just the same as a car, only a test drive will tell you if it is for you. If it shoots bugholes then there is no reason to suppose it will become a scattergun on the way home. Often the custom will be being sold to finance the next toy and will represent a substancial saving over a new custom even if you factor in a new barrel since they often come with last years greatest scope and or mounts.
Some folk only want a Lada, some want a new Mondeo and some a new Lotus, others would spend the Mondeo money on a second hand Lotus. Same with guns.
 
To my mind a custom rifle is a bit more than just accuracy - it should be a rifle that is built that meets your criteria's and fits you well. If it so happens that a 2nd hand custom rifle fits these criteria then that would represent excellent value. In the same way a Baikal 12 bore shoots very well, and so does an AYA Yeoman for £50, but a Beretta Silver Pigeon, bottom end Browning etc should do very well off the shelf, but they still won't be a made to measure English or Italian gun costing £10,000 upwards.
 
Neal

I am in what I guess to be a fortunate position in that when I bought my most recent rifle I could quite easily have gone down the custom route. To me a custom rifle is like a bespoke suit - you get something that is made exactly to your requirements. Your requirements, no one elses. If you buy a secondhand custom rifle then what you are getting is inevitably a compromise. If you don't want to compromise, and you want a custom rifle, wait and get one made to your specification.

I have shot a number of custom rifles and can definitely see the attraction in them. If I won one in a raffle I wouldn't be disappointed, but I decided not to go custom.

Why? Well, I am a recreational stalker, so I am not going to use my rifle all day, every day. I can't think of a shot I've taken on live quarry that was over 250 yards (other than at paper targets), so personally I don't need something that puts 5 shots through the same hole at 500 yards. Other than on special occasions I'll get out with the rifle perhaps once or twice a week at most. Occasionally I am going to guide clients so I need something that anyone can shoot. It should be able to shoot homeloads when I want and factory rounds when I can't be bothered. I should be able to take it out of the cabinet and go shoot, end of.

There are a bunch of rifles out there that will meet these criteria straight out of the box. Every manufacturer has its own adherents, as you'll have seen from the responses to date. You can spend anything from a few hundred to a few thousand - so figure out your budget and what you can explain away to the other half!

I went with a Blaser and my experience to date leaves me with no doubt I made the right choice. But what was right for me was right for me, and I know there are plenty out there who wouldn't make the same choice and are probably already drafting replies ;). If they disagree, fine, the only person that I have to justify my choice to is me.

I'd suggest you find a few poeple who have the rifle or rifles that meet your criteria - whether custom, factory or whatever - and go look at them and, if possible, try them. Then make your decision.

willie_gunn
 
I looked at the custom rifle option prior to purchasing my latest .22/250. In the end I did the sensible thing and bought a blaser with a match barrel. Its more accurate then I am and loves my homeloads.
 
Dom,

I am with you on your custom rifle philosophy; "you get something that is made exactly to your requirements" because there are such good off the shelf options a custom rifle has to be something "made to measure" to make sense.

I started on Blasers! as this is what my mentor lent me till I got my FAC and my own rifle. So I am a big fan of Blasers and almost bought a second hand one when I bought my rifle; unfortunately they had already become really quite pricey (exchange rates, etc..) so I reined myself back a bit and got a nearly new Sako 85 of similar length to the Blaser (& slightly lighter). I have no regrets...I think!?

Neal
 
A friend of mine has a custom jobby - and for a while I think it made him think that he had lost his mojo, but he's ok with it now and his mojo is exactly where it should be. Although I think the stock deffo needs some duracoat over that nasty cammo.
 
Actually I find this thread quite amusing and fairly enlightening. It appears the ideas of custom rifles vary quite a bit. Comments like this one:-

If you only shoot deer sized targets at no more than 200yds then a factory CZ rifle is more than capable of performing for you. Obviously we all like the better quality items in life

It strikes me that a CZ/Brno is seen as only suitable for the poor or a rank beginer :rolleyes: when is fact they are more often than not made better than the rifles that one should aspire to own according the the ideals of some. Even though I am not so fond of the 550 Model the ZKK series were excellent rifles. Of course the Model 550 was Americanised to make it more appealing to the US market and to my mind that was not such an improvement.

Meanwhile I have acouple of Bespoke or custom rifles one from the early part of the 20th Century by Rigby another from the 1990's being a Medwell & Perritt and a semi custom from the late 19th century by DWM of Germany.
 
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Gary,
A friend of yours says you look different in glasses - perhaps you should get the frames duracoated... then again you could try disposable contacts
Neal
 
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