Do you think

Max

Well-Known Member
Do you think we need to keep the extra month on doe's south of the boarder.

North of the boarder have there problems with hard weather and the like but we folks down south really dont.

IMHO we dont need it. What is your opinion and why.

Max
 
Max, my ground has heavy game shooting over it and its very hard to get the time in undisturbed on does to get the cull, so the extra month is very important.
 
I would have to say it depends on your ground and the access to it.

If you are able to come and go as you please on your land during the game season and you keep at it, you should in all fairness be able to get your doe cull completed beore March comes around.
I know people who have real problems being able to get into the woods come November because of the shoot days and they aren't able to get back in until the seasons over; If things don't go your way in Feb and your single handed it can be difficult, the extension can be a godsend if somewhat unpalatable.

ATB
Moses
 
If it were me i would have started the does on the first of Oct that way you can make a visual choice of what to cull there is also no chance at all of a welfare issue if BP rules are follow. March to me is not about deer management its about easy Kills and i dont shoot does in March. Reasons because the deer are thin weak and carrying young there normal rule of thumb flight if disturbed which makes them so hard to stalk and such a sporting animal seems to get less and less as the hunger really hurts. So for me no we do not need to shoot heavy pregnant females in march if we do maybe we need help with our cull as we are clearly not up to the task. ;)
 
I usually draw a line under mature does about the 1st -8th march.This year I've said the 8th but will be very selective from now on.
But it is still handy for mopping single barren and doe yearlings up.
Good recon time for finding clean bucks also.
I have to be sustainable so am cautious and not usually under any strain to reduce numbers to much.
Each to their own I say its up to each stalker to MANAGE his ground and deer as he sees fit.
 
Max, there are several estates over this way who say the fallow cull could not be completed after pheasant shooting has finished if we did not have the extra month.

Simon
 
Personally I have no problem with the extra month and make full use of it but my circumstances are slightly different to most.

What is disapointing is the fact that the Sport of gameshooting is clearly coming before the needs of effective deer management on many estates.

Be careful what you wish for as the next time that deer seasons etc are reviewed I can see the male close season disappearing altogether and the females being much reduced. Many of the people involved in wildlife management now have no respect for the birds and animals (or nature in general) themselves and would be happy to kill every last deer, buzzard, badger if it meant there would be one extra pheasant or grouse to charge someone to shoot.

JC
 
Some of my ground has such limited access that I probably won't achieve the cull even with the month of March. If you can get it done before March then that's fine, but what is the real issue here? There are no deer welfare reasons here at all are there? The fact that they may be hungry and leave cover is merely a bonus if you are culling for management purposes and not purely for sport. If you cull purely for sport, then you probably haven't a cull target to meet anyway!:confused: Although some may find it distasteful, shooting heavily pregnant females doesn't create a deer welfare problem. Infact, it is positively encouraged as 'best practice' for Muntjac so what is the difference? As long as you are not chasing them around too much, I can't see an issue.
So, seeing as most deer are born end of May into June, why don't we overlap the buck season by a month and cull Does until the end of April?:stir:
MS:norty:
 
What is disapointing is the fact that the Sport of gameshooting is clearly coming before the needs of effective deer management on many estates.
JC

JC, Estate shooting, and estate management would not be able to continue in its present form unless birds were sold on let days. Pheasants provide the major income on commercial estates.

Simon
 
Jc I find your post very intresting, if I ran a commercial shoot and farm I might find the deer a nuisance and shoot them all,after all someone has to pay my wages and what you pay for stalking would not go far. As for the male close season dissapearing, what would be wrong with that, a good deer manager would not be affected only the trouphy hunters who want males in hard horn. as for the females season its up to time scales, if you find it distasteful to shoot heavly pregnant does don,t do it, but don,t shoot rabbits, foxes from december, pigeons with young at nest, catch salmon going to sporn, there is nothing sacred about deer, tin hat fitted:)
 
Pheasants provide the major income on commercial estates.

Simon

Not on any of the estates that I have ever worked on they don't. Agriculture, comercial letting, domestic letting, stewardship, forestry, filming, Xmas trees. The list is long and shooting comes very near to the bottom of it. JC
 
Jc I find your post very intresting, if I ran a commercial shoot and farm I might find the deer a nuisance and shoot them all,after all someone has to pay my wages and what you pay for stalking would not go far. As for the male close season dissapearing, what would be wrong with that, a good deer manager would not be affected only the trouphy hunters who want males in hard horn. as for the females season its up to time scales, if you find it distasteful to shoot heavly pregnant does don,t do it, but don,t shoot rabbits, foxes from december, pigeons with young at nest, catch salmon going to sporn, there is nothing sacred about deer, tin hat fitted:)

Taff thanks for your advice. You are correct that what I pay for stalking wouldn't pay your wages because, having been a professional stalker for over twenty years, I don't tend to pay for stalking. The venison income alone on my estate last season (09/10) was around £32,000 giving a suplus of around £7000, not millions granted but, for the same period, the game department lost £46,000. Best wishes, JC
 
It is a fact that most of us find it distastfull when gralloching a pregnant female, but an extra month in England will make it no more distastfull than in Scotland, pregnant is pregnant and Does have to be culled, I also agree that getting rid of the buck season is no bad thing, after all there is no welfare issue and if you are "managing" your own ground you dont have to shoot more than you want to anyway.
 
It is a fact that most of us find it distastfull when gralloching a pregnant female, but an extra month in England will make it no more distastfull than in Scotland, pregnant is pregnant and Does have to be culled, I also agree that getting rid of the buck season is no bad thing, after all there is no welfare issue and if you are "managing" your own ground you dont have to shoot more than you want to anyway.

Not so sure about that statement whilst on the basis of there not being welfare issues as you claim ,it may appear to be that way, but like all species the continuity needs the male of the genus to be present,

History has shown that stalkers favour culling the males in preference to the females thus leaving an abundance of females. By doing so these females will be fighting for surviving males to pro create so there is a welfare issue .

What you say about you are in control of creating the balance I am not sure as that would work as the current situation shows a slight imbalance as it is . By giving you the opportunity by eliminating a close season on bucks I fear can only increase the sex ratios, but thats only my opinion.
Personally the existing close seasons are about as best we can do under the circumstances, extention of culling does by a few weeks should also only be considered should the ratios on the ground in particular areas favour the does so that an equal species exist in harmony and for no other reason.
Regards
Stu
 
I take your point but, there is no valid reason why England can not have the same dates for roe does as scotland, the extra 10 days could be quite useful
 
Further to my previous post. Deer seasons are generally based around deer wefare. The buck season is arguable, but I would also agree that both sexes of all species need some respite at some time throughout the year.
I believe that the extra month granted for Does gives us the flexibility if required without compromising deer welfare.
However, my concern is that the Doe season starts too early!!!!:eek:
Many Does shot in November still have what I would class as dependent fawns. They may not be on their mothers milk, but they most definitely depend on their mothers guidance for 'life skills'! As careful as you may be, young will be orphaned at this stage of life if you choose to shoot does in November. In my mind, this is far more of a deer welfare issue than shooting a heavily pregnant Doe!
Maybe the whole Doe season should shift right by a month?
Discuss!
MS:-|
 
totally agree with that ! more welfare issuse shooting a doe in november than march ,imho cheers Tom
 
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