What are the requirements to become a mentor? anyone know please??
What are the requirements to become a mentor? anyone know please??
This is part of a reply I got from the firearms licencing manager when I e-mailed him asking that question....
The laws concerning deer stalking are many and complex for a novice and having the correct permissions and the correct calibre of rifle on your Firearms Certificate is just the beginning.
To minimise the risk to public safety, Chief officers of police are empowered to impose conditions on firearms certificates and the condition applied in the case of a novice deerstalker that he must be accompanied by an experienced deerstalker is one such condition.
This condition is only temporary and relies on the novice gaining experience by accompanying an experienced deerstalker and gaining the confidence and experience of using his own personal rifle and learning new techniques over a period of time.
Once his mentor is satisfied that he has gained the necessary knowledge and is competent enough to go deer stalking without supervision he can put this in writing and inform the licensing authority that in his opinion the condition can safely be removed from the firearm certificate.
The Deer Management Qualification deer stalking level 1 certificate assesses the under-pinning technical knowledge and marksmanship skill expected of an unsupervised deerstalker and is a good starting point for novice deerstalkers to begin their training.
An example of an experienced deerstalker is a person who has gained his deer stalking experience over a number of years and does not have any land restrictions on his deer stalking condition. Preferably a person who has completed the Deer Management Qualification deer stalking level 1 and 2 certificates.
Hope this answers your question.
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“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
Si's paragraph helpfully clarifies what Greater Manchester Police mean by a 'mentor' in the context of a 'mentoring condition' which they've inflicted on a FAC-holder.
If I wished to be controversial, I'd say that there were two requirements to become a 'conditioned' mentor:
1. To be a stalker experienced enough to satisfy the local FLD
2. To have a disposition to support and encourage the Police in applying and enforcing discretionary FAC conditions of a kind which the Home Office does not approve, and whose effect seems to be to cloud the otherwise clear personal and organisational responsibilities and liabilities of the Police, the 'mentor' and the FAC-holder.
Not wishing to be controversial, however, I will simply suggest a search of the previous 'mentor condition' threads
Oh come on - you know you really want to be.
Totally agree with your sentiments, this 'mentoring condition' rubbish is fast getting out of hand. It's neither advised, approved or defined by the HO or ACPO and is just a means of some police FLDs to either wash their hands of making a public safety critical decision, or make life difficult for new entrants to deer stalking - or both!
Thanks for your replies gents and in response to Dalua as below
. To have a disposition to support and encourage the Police in applying and enforcing discretionary FAC conditions of a kind which the Home Office does not approve, and whose effect seems to be to cloud the otherwise clear personal and organisational responsibilities and liabilities of the Police, the 'mentor' and the FAC-holder
No I dont have the disposition to support mentoring....but what I will do is help someone who already has such a conditon and cant get his mentor to go shooting with him and is in a no win situation. What I am looking to do is possibly helping him by either taking over from his mentor or helping when his mentor cant get the time to shoot with him.
Also its worthy of note that although its a pain in the butt to be under a mentor ,as I was, I have to say I thought whats the point of this? Since being mentored I have to now say that I had to eat some portions of humble pie and learnt so bloody much from my mentor.
I can also say I have shot with people who have been mentored and who havent been mentored, some good ,some questionable at times so agree it isnt a definative solution in any way shape or form. I would also add that certainly in my case, it was not the police who attempted to make my entry in the world of deer stalking difficult but a a 'clique' of other stalkers in my area who have vast swathes of land to who stalking is big buisness and cannot stand to see 'a new kid on the block'. The very same people who complain about the police but will use the police (when it suited them) to embetter their own selfish empires....but in my case it well and truly backfired on them.
What I am reading with this is that you wouldnt support a friend who wanted to get into deer stalking who needed a mentor if the police requested he or she needed one and wouldnt budge? What does said friend do then??
Last edited by chickenman; 24-02-2011 at 15:13.
I have always taken a mentor just to mean someone deemed suitable by their FEO, no matter what qualifications they have or don't have, it's at their dicretion whether they think you are suitable or not.
I mentor people to help them out, I'd never seen or thought of it as taking sides with the police to be awkward and encourage the condition to be added to more tickets.
Perhaps Dalua couldn't find the 'tongue-in-cheek' emoticon? I certainly didn't take his comment too seriously, although maybe you're a bit closer to the problem - is this regarding your friend you mentioned on another thread who can't come stalking with you because of the named mentor condition on his ticket?
I don't think most on here who take the time to respond to these kind of issues would be the type of people to not help out another shooter if push came to shove, but the more we all acquiesce to these unwarranted conditions - either by submitting to them to gain an FAC, or acting as some kind of unofficial 'public safety examiner' for the police - the more we are likely to see them being imposed. As has been noted elsewhere on this forum, if seriously challenged the adminstrators of the Firearms Act(s) will back down when faced with a well researched and justifiable arguement against conditions that are not:
o WRITTEN IN PLAIN ENGLISH
o DEMONSTRABLY BENEFICIAL TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY
o PROPERLY NOTIFIED
(Taken from BASC 'Conditions' .pdf download from here: http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/...44064E62F3689D)
But it's up to the individual to challenge them if they do not meet the above criteria.
Last edited by Orion; 24-02-2011 at 15:42.
My view is perhaps rather counterintuitive.
However, if I were asked to act as a 'conditioned mentor', and were adequately qualified, I think the prudent thing would be to decline so to take that role unless the 'mentoring condition' were removed.
I am entirely convinced that it is an excellent idea for a stalker, especially perhaps a beginner, to gain experience by going stalking with a sensible and more-experienced stalker. That, however, goes not require 'conditioned mentoring'.
I'm grateful to Orion for listing the objections to 'mentoring conditions', the raising of which might help in the removal of the condition.
If the FLD thinks the applicant shouldn't have a FAC as he can't be trusted in the field with a rifle on his own then he shouldn't be granted a FAC. Such an applicant needs more experience before grant of the FAC (as suggested in the HO Guidance).
My approach would be to agree to act as a mentor as long as the condition were removed, and I think if more people of 'conditioned mentor'-level experience took that approach there might be less of this nonsensical 'conditioned mentoring' and a bit more issuing of FACs only to those who the Police thought were fit to behave sensibly with a rifle.
I am in no way suggesting that people who generously and selflessly act as 'conditioned mentors' are setting out to be either coppers' narks, or collaboraters with an unjustifiable and oppressively restrictive control measure thought up by the Police.
In effect, however, they are both those things; and as Mr. Chickenman points out, some of those who support 'conditioned mentoring' might indeed be basing such support other than on the welfare of novice stalkers.
The answer, dear Readers, as to how I would help a friend who had unjustifiably been saddled with a 'mentoring condition' is that I would use my persuasive charm to get that condition removed. If that didn't work, I'd have to reconsider my original position - but at least I'd have tried
Hi guys, no its actually for a different chap. Its a guy on here who I sent a PM to last night as he was in my area and he too has a condition but unable to shoot as his mentor is very busy. I said to him if he can get it changed or have more than one mentor I would help him as he is inbetween a rock and a hard place. Regarding Duluas post and the tongue in cheek bit, I didnt read it as him 'having a pop at me' nor was I him