Atec CMM4 & Roedale Delta

Simon, I think the 4 baffle Atec is 220 grams, the 5 baffle Roedale is just under 200 grams.
I have an early test 5 baffle delta for my 308 which weighs 175 grams. Won't be selling that one as
it works a treat. Roedale also sell a "light" vs the "ultra light", the "light" has two first baffles in stainless
and therefore weigh around 230 - 250 grams, also 5 baffle.
edi
 
Simon, I think the 4 baffle Atec is 220 grams, the 5 baffle Roedale is just under 200 grams.
I have an early test 5 baffle delta for my 308 which weighs 175 grams. Won't be selling that one as
it works a treat. Roedale also sell a "light" vs the "ultra light", the "light" has two first baffles in stainless
and therefore weigh around 230 - 250 grams, also 5 baffle.
edi

Well done edi, I was just reading the blurb on the adverts :coat:

Simon
 
Here we go :-

First off Rifle is a Remington Model seven 20" barrel .260 rem
Home loads 129Gr hornaday Sp pushed by CCI primers 43 gr reloader 19 at 2500 fps.

First three rounds high and left

Pulled them on to target

4 baffles and the cmm4 is slightly louder than t8 and s5

3 baffles and big increase in noise

2 baffles and louder still but touch and go to needing ear defenders

1 baffle and very loud But quite alot less than no moderator


BUT now the bad news :- I fired 20 shots in 60 min and after stripping the mod 3 of the 4 Baffles are Gas cut !!!! Will it lats the two year warranty ? only if i dont zero it much.

Would i buy again ? to early to tell but gut feeling is telling me i should have bought another Ase s5.
 
Thanks for that - very interesting!
I think gas cutting is probably a given with an Alu moderator - the big question is how many rounds before a baffle lets go. Until then, I wouldn't be concerned! and new baffles are about £20 I believe...
 
My experience of the CMM4 would seem to match that of Splash above. My initial zeroing session was with a 308 and a 243, about 15 rounds in all to get the scopes re-adjusted and each rifle shot for group. That session resulted in the mod showing gas cutting. Since then I've used the mod to shoot my stalkers test with the 308 and take a few deer with the 243. The cutting does not seem to have got any worse.
On the 243, the performance is excellent. It is a little louder than the T8, but the sound it produces is very "flat" and not at all uncomfortable to the ears.
On the 308, I'm considering adding an extra baffle for use with this rifle. Don't get me wrong, the boom has gone right out of the report and it is useable without ear defenders, but it is not nearly as quiet as when used with the 243.
My T8 is now redundant; the difference between the two as far as handlability is concerned is like night and day.
I had the muzzle threaded on my 308 at Norfolk Sporting Guns in Fakenham, and Chris has done a top job with a turn-around time of about 3 days.
 
As my next major (for me) purchase will be a new mod for my rifle i have been doing a little research, and have contacted a few manufacturers for information.

I had three in mind, the Third Eye Sparton, the CMM4 and the Roedale.

Now it turned out that the reflex Sparton weighed about the same as the all stainless or parkerised mild steel Roedale, about 450g, but of course Roedale do a "light" model that weighs in below 200g with 4 baffles. Which is a big difference.

The CMM4 is all aliminium, weighs 220g and I am concerned about gas cutting, even though they have replaceable baffles. The Roedale all aluminium 4 baffle is both lighter and still has replaceable baffles. But, and it's a dilly, the Roedale has the option of fitting stainless & coated baffles instead of the ali ones. So i emailed Roedale asking about the weight difference if you fitted a couple of stainless baffles, and had an almost immediate response from Pete Lincoln the owner, he has been incredibly helpful;

"the Delta IV weighs 175g with 4 baffles and a 1/2x20 UNF thread, larger threads such as the M14x1 or 5/8x24 have slightly less weight.(but not much) .
swapping the 1st 2 baffles for TiAIN coated stainless baffels adds 50g total. so you would have a 225g moderator."

So it looks like i am having the Roedale with two stainless baffles, all I have to make my mind up about is whether to have the IV, V or VI model.

Simon
 
Simon, I have the Roedale with the two Ti coated baffles and a 15x1 spigot thread. Weighs 230grammes on my scale.

It dangles between the rear legs of a dog......
 
Simon, I have the Roedale with the two Ti coated baffles and a 15x1 spigot thread. Weighs 230grammes on my scale.

It dangles between the rear legs of a dog......

If it is a male dog, I bet it's not its tail? ;)

Simon

Edit; Brian, Peter did tell me that a spigoted thread moderator would weigh only slightly more.
 
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One strange thing about the gas cutting ! it was one the first, third and fouth baffle .
So why was the second not cut ??
A
Would this would mean that the roedale which has the first to baffle in S/S would just cut the third and fourth baffle ?:confused:
 
One strange thing about the gas cutting ! it was one the first, third and fouth baffle .
So why was the second not cut ??
A
Would this would mean that the roedale which has the first to baffle in S/S would just cut the third and fourth baffle ?:confused:

The Roedale "ultralight" is, as been stated before, all coated aluminium, but it is possible to upgrade it by fitting stainless baffle units. In fact you can fit as many stainless baffles as you like.

Roedale also do a "light" model too, which can come in Parkerised mild steel or in a fully TiAIN coated stainless steel model which weighs about 450g from memory. If you are confused look on their web-site, it's very good.

Simon
 
I've been using the ultralight deltas now for a bit over a year. Have three in use at the moment and have not
any corrosion on the baffles yet. The corrosion problem on the first A-tec mod was not a huge problem
if one ran an oily brush through the mod after use just to avoid that aluminium oxide or hydroxide growing.
If I see any corrosion forming on the deltas I'll do just that.
Ultralight moderators are designed for stalking or hunting where not too many rounds are fired. Nobody really
knows the lifespan of these mods yet, but my guess is several hundred deer.
edi
 
Splash, sounds like you are getting an after burn in the moderator, what I mean is that your propellant is not fully burning in 20" of barrel, it is burning in the moderator between baffle 2 and 3 causing a high temparature and burning of baffles.
I bet if you fire the rifle without a mod you have a hell of a flame thrower..
and you will be damaging your hearing with any less than 4 baffles.
we measured 9dB reduction with 1 baffle, 16,6 with 2 and 20,9 with 3. you need 4 to get below the damage threshold.

Gas Cutting-Wear of baffles:

We put several hundred rounds through test models in fairly rapid succession and didnt see much wear by gass cutting for the first couple of hundred and ive about 300rds through mine on my .260. with no signs of gas cutting at all yet. these have been slow steady rounds whilst hunting or at the range, Ive a mate using one of a .416 rigby, and he's no problems as yet.
what realy makes a difference is the design of the shape of the back of the baffles, as well as the actual type of alloy we use ( slightly higher melt point) plus the very hard coat anodising( hart-coatieren is what the Germans call it) they are subjected to, the shape leaves the part of the baffle that gets the most thrust fairly thick, this distributes the heat and the anodising seems to repel the heat - gas cutting fairly well.
of course with the melt point of alloy is lower than the burning temp of propellant gasses, baffles will definately suffer gass cutting at some stage ( even rifle barrles fire crack after the first shot in the thorat area)
but so what,, everyone knows you need a new exhaust on a car at some point and a moderator is no different. the beauty of the modular systems is you can, like an exhaust, replace just the back box, mid section of down pipe, rather than the whole system from manifold to tail pipe. One should keep an eye on the state of the baffles and aquire new ones as and when required.
definately i would use a couple of stainless-coated baffles ( coated to make then dark in colour) if i was using the mod on a magnum or higher intensity cartridge.
I believe the lighter weight and increased ergonomics of the alloy type moderators certainly makes up for anything they loose in lifespan.
rgds Pete
 
Hi pete
Not noticed alot of flame but then i don't shoot without the mod on much. I also Don't plan to shorten the mod only did the test for the folk on here !
I was tempted to try your delta but due to the problems i have read on this and other forums about turnaround time and the fact i exchanged a wornout t8 the atec was the best option.
Atb
Splash
 
Hi Splash, i'm a big .260 fan my self. and I like short barrels, what loads / ammo are you using?
yep, any less than 4 baffles ( on either mine or the A-tec) will have your ears ringing.
was that my turn around time or sportsmans? plenty to read about my long delivery times, but we are working on improving it. and Sportsmans needed to get set up to deal with the mods, wanted to get the proof house mark on them and that took a while,, things should all run smoothly there now though I expect,
Atb. Pete
 
Hornaday Sp 129 Gr 43 Gr reloader 19 at 2400 fps. Used 100 gr but they broke up to much and failed to exit on fallow good for fox though. Larger bullets did not suit the rifle as it is very light.
 
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