This should help with BASC questions.

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
Today the director of communications of BASC joined the site, he has joined to answer any questions that we may have, here is his intro http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?21273-Just-joined

I think this is quite timely as this morning I received my electricity statement and it raises a point with BASC!

I pay my electric bill by Direct Debit and by doing so get a 5% discount on my bill, BASC have offered the same direct debit facility but at a cost to members. Christopher could you please explain why one company offers a discount and another charges, both for the same facility.

John
 
First of all I feel congratulations are due to the SD team for running the site in such a manner that both David and Christopher of BASC are willing to openly engage the members in debate. How many other forums can claim the open participation of such representatives?

In response to JAYB's coments on paying his electricity bill, I too receive a discount, but only if I pay annually and in advance. Quite the reverse, it seems to how John's electricity company operates. Clearly, alternative incentives exist within the industry.

Despite David's assertion that membership fees have not risen I choose to view this development in an alternative light. That is, that membership fees have risen, to a maximum of £73 if paid over ten months but with members opting to pay quarterly by DD receiving a discount of approximately 7%, or £5, and members paying annualy receiving a discount of 9.5%, or £7.

Somebody mentioned Country Club Cover. That appears to be available on an annual basis at £19.95 or a six monthly basis at £12.95. Take the latter option and you pay £5.95 or nearly 30% more than you would on the annual option. Now who's milking the cash cow?

The saying "But cheap, buy twice" is as relevant here as it is with regard to any other investment. Look to cheaper alternatives if you choose, but be aware that when push comes to shove it is the best resourced and most capable that will likely win the day. That's why BASC gets my support.
 
Last edited:
Iwrch thats a nice reply and i am sure when you get on the council i am sure Chris and David will by you a pint at the first Travel Lodge. Not forgetting the straw :lol:. May i ask if BASC are in disscussion with the Deer Sector in Scotland with regards the standard one needs to reach to get on the Fit and Compitent Register. Also what has been BASC,s advice to the commity or what will be there advice when the time comes. ?
 
Thanks for the questions.

On the Direct Debit there are a few points that should be borne in mind. There's been widespread demand for a DD facility from people who found the one off payment too big a hit for one month. I want to ensure that those people can remain members of BASC and have advocated a phased system for some time. Practice from utility or insurance companies will vary across the country. Utilities will give you a discount because they want to tie you in, reduce their costs and don't want the bad publicity of cutting you off - they're operating on a scale way beyond ours. Insurance companies can charge you a premium for a DD facility - they'll often justify it as a charge for the credit. In BASC's case decisions on pricing for membership are taken by the Council elected by the members on advice from staff. I suspect Council considered the major rewrite of our membership database to enable it to offer DD and the extra staffing required to deal with the new accounting requirements and problem payments when making a decision. In the end the premium is still less than a packet of fags and the new DD - launched on March 1st is already proving very popular. But no one is forcing you to take out a direct debit or become a member of BASC. That's down to your own choice. Joining a shooting organisation should be less about the services you get and more about the defence and promotion of the sport. I'd want to give my hard earned cash to the organisation who I believe can do that job - giving it to an ineffective or inactive organisation to save a few pounds doesn't seem sensible to me. But in the end it's your choice.

Christopher
 
Iwrch thats a nice reply and i am sure when you get on the council i am sure Chris and David will by you a pint at the first Travel Lodge. Not forgetting the straw :lol:. May i ask if BASC are in disscussion with the Deer Sector in Scotland with regards the standard one needs to reach to get on the Fit and Compitent Register. Also what has been BASC,s advice to the commity or what will be there advice when the time comes. ?

Yes, we've been deeply involved in the discussions on deer in Scotland for decades - Colin Shedden, our Director in Scotland was at one time a Deer Commissioner. he came off last summer.

The "Fit and Competent" register was introduced by the 1996 Deer Act Scotland. This has nothing to do with normal stalking but applies to licensed night and out of season shooting. BASC recognises that the law demands that people being licensed for such shooting should be - as the Act says - "deemed fit and competent".

This shouldn't be confused with with the proposed register contained in the WANE Bill - yet to be enacted - which is proposed for anyone who stalks unaccompanied in Scotland. BASC have always argued that a voluntary approach to gaining competency is by far the best. Under the current terms of the Bill SNH will review stalker competency in 2013 and we have until then to demonstrate that the voluntary approach is working. We're collaborating with other shooting organisations and LANTRA to do just that and discussions are ongoing.

Christopher
 
Thanks for the questions.

On the Direct Debit there are a few points that should be borne in mind. There's been widespread demand for a DD facility from people who found the one off payment too big a hit for one month. I want to ensure that those people can remain members of BASC and have advocated a phased system for some time. Practice from utility or insurance companies will vary across the country. Utilities will give you a discount because they want to tie you in, reduce their costs and don't want the bad publicity of cutting you off - they're operating on a scale way beyond ours. Insurance companies can charge you a premium for a DD facility - they'll often justify it as a charge for the credit. In BASC's case decisions on pricing for membership are taken by the Council elected by the members on advice from staff. I suspect Council considered the major rewrite of our membership database to enable it to offer DD and the extra staffing required to deal with the new accounting requirements and problem payments when making a decision. In the end the premium is still less than a packet of fags and the new DD - launched on March 1st is already proving very popular. But no one is forcing you to take out a direct debit or become a member of BASC. That's down to your own choice. Joining a shooting organisation should be less about the services you get and more about the defence and promotion of the sport. I'd want to give my hard earned cash to the organisation who I believe can do that job - giving it to an ineffective or inactive organisation to save a few pounds doesn't seem sensible to me. But in the end it's your choice.

Christopher

Christopher,

thanks for that, but is that the reason or what you suspect. As for extra staff surely this would just be a temporary thing until the database was rewritten and even that would be done by outside contractors or have I got that wrong. Also I do not understand "problem payments when making a decision" I do not wish to make unnecessary waves but by the same token being told that it would cost less than packet of fags, I don't smoke so that has no relevance to me, and that no one is forcing me to join is not really want I want to hear. If I were BASC I would be more concerned about forcing people to leave than to join, this is making me consider my renewal, it all seems a bit negative and dismissive to me in the format above.

John

John
 
Just viewed the site to see whats happening. Due to lack of activity will the Scottish members get a discount I wonder. Plenty fairs and activities south of the border, Nothing after Saturday on the Scottish calender,
Jim
 
It wasn't intended to sound negative or dismissive - far from it. My personal opinion is that phased payments is a great step forwards because it makes it possible for people to be members when they find the single payment difficult. For the same reasons concessions for the unemployed keep BASC a broader church than we might become if such measures hadn't been introduced. Council did not give reasons for their decision, but I sit as a non-voting member and the above is my personal view of what they considered. Our membership database is managed internally, it's far too important to leave to contractors. Introducing annual DD's a few years back generated considerable work when banks declined payment because we get into debt accounting and the problems associated with cancellation or non-payment. We must also process more payments. While retention of members is always high on my list the good news is that BASC's retention rate hovers around 90% - a figure that is higher than any other retehtion rate I've ever heard of and one for which most membership organisations would give their eye teeth. The last survey of members showed a satisfaction rate with BASC running at 96%. We monitor both figures on a regular basis.

Christopher
 
Just viewed the site to see whats happening. Due to lack of activity will the Scottish members get a discount I wonder. Plenty fairs and activities south of the border, Nothing after Saturday on the Scottish calender,
Jim

Jimbo, well spotted. I've drawn that to the attention of Colin Shedden and the forward events list will be updated.

Christopher
 
Thanks for the questions.

On the Direct Debit there are a few points that should be borne in mind. There's been widespread demand for a DD facility from people who found the one off payment too big a hit for one month. I want to ensure that those people can remain members of BASC and have advocated a phased system for some time. Practice from utility or insurance companies will vary across the country. Utilities will give you a discount because they want to tie you in, reduce their costs and don't want the bad publicity of cutting you off - they're operating on a scale way beyond ours. Insurance companies can charge you a premium for a DD facility - they'll often justify it as a charge for the credit. In BASC's case decisions on pricing for membership are taken by the Council elected by the members on advice from staff. I suspect Council considered the major rewrite of our membership database to enable it to offer DD and the extra staffing required to deal with the new accounting requirements and problem payments when making a decision. In the end the premium is still less than a packet of fags and the new DD - launched on March 1st is already proving very popular. But no one is forcing you to take out a direct debit or become a member of BASC. That's down to your own choice. Joining a shooting organisation should be less about the services you get and more about the defence and promotion of the sport. I'd want to give my hard earned cash to the organisation who I believe can do that job - giving it to an ineffective or inactive organisation to save a few pounds doesn't seem sensible to me. But in the end it's your choice.

Christopher

Well Im sorry but for the Membership prices you are asking,i would like top services,All Basc has done in my opinion is make more hurdles for folk to jump over,you don't need a DSC1 and 2 for shooting rabbits or Wild boar, and cleaning them and selling the meat,how on earth do deer differ from a wild boar or rabbit when stalked,shot and Gralloched ???
Or will Rabbits and Wild Boar come under your control next ???

Bernie
 
Bernie,

You don't need a DSC1 or 2 for shooting deer. I believe we do offer services of the highest quality and we're always trying to improve them. It's worth remembering that BASC is the only shooting organisation to my knowledge that is a non-profit making, mutual Industrial and Provident Society constituted for the benefit of the public. As such every penny we receive is spent on shooting.

DSC is a separate organisation to BASC of which BASC are a founding member. Other partners include: The Countryside Alliance, Sparsholt College, Forest Enterprise, The Deer Initiative, The Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust, The North Highland College, The British Deer Society and The Association of Deer Management Groups Scotland.

BASC does not control the shooting of any animal - but we're committed to the encouragement of high standards and the provision of voluntary training.

My personal view is that I'd prefer to see the regulation of boar shooting rather than guidance. I think there are welfare issues with the lack of any season and mere recommendations on calibres.

Rabbit control is already regulated by law and was long before WAGBI was founded in 1908.

Christopher
 
Bernie has got a point and i am sure any one would agree that if you are safe and compitent it maters not what you are shooting ,but if you are not safe then you should not have a firearm. While the DMQ was set up on a voluntary basis for people with a quest for knowlage. It became quite clear early on to most deerstalks what road it would take when large forestry companies insisted on first Lev1 and Now lev2. So will you as the leading shooting organisation be pushing for mandatory testing in scotland for all not just the monority Deerstalkers.??
May i say that it will become mandatory (LAW) To show compitence before you will be allow to shoot and stalk deer in scotland.!

I FEEL WORRED THAT IN THIS DAY AND AGE A MINORITY (DEERSTALKERS) CAN BE FORCED TO SHOW COMPITENCE IN ITS USE OF FIREARMS WHILE OTHERS WHO WILL HOLD THE SAME FIREARMS AND WILL ALSO BE PUTTING GAME INTO THE FOOD CHAIN DO NOT NEED TO SHOW ANY COMPITENCE WHAT SO EVER.???

PS MAY I SAY THANK YOU FOR REPLYING TO MY LAST QUESTION.
 
Last edited:
But Christopher you need a DSC1 and 2 to stalk on Forestry commission land which has the highest percentage of Stalking,how long before Basc bring in, hand in glove with the forestry commission, you can't stalk without a trained dog.Oh and well set up the training centres and make all the rules Bla Bla Bla

Bernie
 
Bernie has got a point and i am sure any one would agree that if you are safe and compitent it maters not what you are shooting ,but if you are not safe then you should not have a firearm. While the DMQ was set up on a voluntary basis for people with a quest for knowlage. It became quite clear early on to most deerstalks what road it would take when large forestry companies insisted on first Lev1 and Now lev2. So will you as the leading shooting organisation be pushing for mandatory testing in scotland for all not just the monority Deerstalkers.??
May i say that it will become mandatory (LAW) To show compitence before you will be allow to shoot and stalk deer in scotland.!

I FEEL WORRED THAT IN THIS DAY AND AGE A MINORITY (DEERSTALKERS) CAN BE FORCED TO SHOW COMPITENCE IN ITS USE OF FIREARMS WHILE OTHERS WHO WILL HOLD THE SAME FIREARMS AND WILL ALSO BE PUTTING GAME INTO THE FOOD CHAIN DO NOT NEED TO SHOW ANY COMPITENCE WHAT SO EVER.???

PS MAY I SAY THANK YOU FOR REPLYING TO MY LAST QUESTION.

Well said that Man,go to Melton Mowbry Market on a Tuesday and see how many Rabbits are put into the Food chain,to me just a smaller deer,which i don't have to jump through hoops, to shoot gut and flog at market

Bernie
 
Bernie,

You don't need a DSC1 or 2 for shooting deer. I believe we do offer services of the highest quality and we're always trying to improve them. It's worth remembering that BASC is the only shooting organisation to my knowledge that is a non-profit making, mutual Industrial and Provident Society constituted for the benefit of the public. As such every penny we receive is spent on shooting.

DSC is a separate organisation to BASC of which BASC are a founding member. Other partners include: The Countryside Alliance, Sparsholt College, Forest Enterprise, The Deer Initiative, The Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust, The North Highland College, The British Deer Society and The Association of Deer Management Groups Scotland.

BASC does not control the shooting of any animal - but we're committed to the encouragement of high standards and the provision of voluntary training.

My personal view is that I'd prefer to see the regulation of boar shooting rather than guidance. I think there are welfare issues with the lack of any season and mere recommendations on calibres.

Rabbit control is already regulated by law and was long before WAGBI was founded in 1908.

Christopher

Yeahhhhh well why do B.A.S.C officers sit on the DMQ board then??????? Are you trying to imply that they dont have any input ?
Regards
Stuart
Life Member B.A.S.C
 
Last edited:
I hope he's arranged to take some 'Forum leave' from his employers then. He's certainly likely to have quite a bit of his time taken up on here when the questions start rolling in! ;)

im sorry to say christopher in my humble opinion BASC have lost their way !

i was a loyal member up until 4 yrs ago when i moved to the BDS , i just felt that BASC just didnt offer me what i required and also the increasing membership fee didnt help the situation either !

i also feel that you are going to be banging your head against a brick wall on here (the SD) because there are so many unhappy members or ex- members , no matter what you say you are gonna be wrong .

just my quids worth .

lee
 
I'm still loyal.

I've dealt with many associations and representative groups in my time. None of the others have represented my interests so well as t'BASC have.

Not that you're actually perfect or immune to criticism, of course :D.... but you'll do for me.
 
Another Ex Member here and echoing Lee6.5 I too think BASC have lost there way.

As far as the deer stalker is concerned it just seems that BASC are trying to milk as mush cash of of us as possible.

You only have to look at the courses on the BASC website.

Firearms Awarness Course, Sporting Rifle, Pre DSC1, DSC1, Intermeadeate Deer Course, Carcass Inspection and Butchery, Meat Hygyene Level 2, Novice Dogs for Deer, Dogs for Deer, DSC2.

They are doing nothing to fight off the requirement of these courses before you can stalk on public (FC) ground or in some places get an FAC.

The list of courses would cost in the region of £2k to attend and BASC are fueling the requirement of such courses by inventing new courses then recommending them as "BEST PRACTICE"
 
I'm still loyal.

I've dealt with many associations and representative groups in my time. None of the others have represented my interests so well as t'BASC have.

Not that you're actually perfect or immune to criticism, of course :D.... but you'll do for me.

+1. I have contacted BASC's legal team on two occassions, and both times they provided the necessary advice without delay. With solicitors typically charging £200+ per hour, I'm more than happy with BASC's performance.
 
Back
Top