open ticket / or not

pj1

Well-Known Member
hi there

just received my certificate back for having a variation to add a 308. it say i can shoot where i deam suitable with my 22 and 243 but with the 308 only land cleared by cheif officer of police.:eek:

is it me:doh:

regards pj
 
ok as i thought. but why the differance. am i far more dangerous with a 308 over a 243. when i applied for my .222 i had open ticket straight away. have had my 22 for 6 years 243 for 4 and have sold my 222 to get 308. im confused and frustrated
 
any one caliber is no more dangerous than the next one its the person behind the trigger that counts, so if your open on a 243 why not a 308 ?

tell them if anything to put your 22 rimfire on a closed ticket due to increased chances of riochoets

safebackstop that counts not the size of the bullet, you get my drift
 
thanks 223

glad its not just me. i will have to send my ticket back as i hope to get the 308 tomorrow and exchange my 243 for it so will talk to my feo. just frustrating that there is no clear guidance on any firearms law. everything seems to be up to the police authority "interpritation"

regards pj
 
just received my certificate back for having a variation to add a 308. it say i can shoot where i deam suitable with my 22 and 243 but with the 308 only land cleared by cheif officer of police.:eek:

pj, is there any difference in quarry species? Have you added deer for the .308, or did you already have it with the .243?

We've seen it recently on here that some forces, GMP is one I believe, have a policy of imposing certain conditions such as the dreaded 'mentoring' initially when deer is a quarry. Maybe your force have a similar thing with territorial restrictions being added automatically and they have just made an avoidable admin error?

just frustrating that there is no clear guidance on any firearms law. everything seems to be up to the police authority "interpritation"

:rofl:

There's some perfectly good and usable guidance available to the various police forces in the form of the Home Office Guidance to Police, (the clue is in the title ;)), plus the sporadic but sensible recommendations that they receive from ACPO Firearms & Explosives Licensing Working Group (FELWG), such as that advising use of the 'Any Other Lawful Quarry' condition.

The fact that some of the FLDs choose to ignore them and go there own way is often the root cause of many of the avoidable issues suffered by law-abiding shooters.

Link to ACPO FELWG Minutes for those who have an interest:

http://www.dorset.police.uk/default.aspx?page=626
 
hi orion

thanks for the reply. i think they have really cocked up. i handed in my ticket for with a receipt showing i had sold my .222. a receipt showing i had sold my 243 mod. a permission to shoot letter detailing where and with what calibre (308) and forms for variation to add a 308. they sent a letter saying thankyou for telling them i have sold my 222 but could i send my cert in. my cert arrived on friday with 222 taken off and 308 added:) this bit was at least right. i also notice that the 243 mod that i have sold i apparently still posses:banghead:.
i had deer and fox on my ticket for the 243 so there is no differance at all except it being a 308 and that they will not put fox on the 308.
has the world gone mad

regards pj
 
Aahh Sussex :rolleyes: send it back with a letter asking for the condition to be removed and fox added ' whilst stalking deer ' . They don't like fox on 308 but you should get this. Obviously explain you shoot fallow at dusk and then foxes and you would feel its in the public safety not to have to take another rifle out and leave it in the car .
then follow this up with a call direct to firearms after a week .
Atb steve
 
As I had lost my permission and hadn't currently got any nominated ground, on my recent renewal I asked for an open ticket and got it in terms of land with no conditions or requirement for an inspection - that's left to my judgement. I have a .243 and .270 with the .243 previously conditioned for deer and foxes and the .270 just for deer and when the very amenable FLO called to give me my new FAC and check my security I just commented on how stupid it was that I could not shoot a fox with my .270 whilst deerstalking if a gamekeeper asked me to. He immediately took the FAC back and had it changed to allow me to take a fox "whilst deerstalking" within a couple of hours.

He also said that if I got an invitation/bought a day to shoot boar or had land with boar, that he would be happy to condition my .270 for boar.

You really can't knock that - North Wales Police by the way and a big change over their previous attitude but we've got a new FLO and a new Chief Constable.
 
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i had deer and fox on my ticket for the 243 so there is no differance at all except it being a 308 and that they will not put fox on the 308.
has the world gone mad

pj, sounds as if your part of the world at least has gone mad!

As you have previously had the .243 conditioned for deer and fox, I don't personally think they have a leg to stand on in trying to refuse you the same condition for another deer legal calibre albeit marginally larger and more powerful, (although neither of those facts should influence the matter. :rolleyes:).

Have they given you the reason for refusal in writing or just verbally? If it's just verbal then you need to start getting some written or email correspondence going so that a paper trail can be established - don't accept anything spoken unless of course it's accompanied by a reversal of the decision. ;)

From now on in if you want some sense applied you are likely going to have to be prepared to ruffle a few feathers in the FLD. Despite what has been said already, I would strongly advise against applying for or accepting a 'fox whilst stalking' condition. It is unduly restrictive, is not recommended in the HO Guidance, and is totally illogical - even BASC advise against it in one of their Guidance/Fact sheets:

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/document-summary.cfm/docid/3D001190-BA52-43B5-91F72349FD5C6B90

Bordersman, food for thought but you mention that an applicant might, "shoot fallow at dusk and then foxes". I suspect that it wouldn't neccessarily meet a condition of 'foxes whilst stalking deer' as the stalking must end at 1hr post sunset. Any undertaking after that point wouldn't be deer stalking and therefore could be in breach of such a condition. Small point maybe, but people have lost their FACs for lesser transgressions, so maybe another reason to ensure that the 'deer. fox & vermin' or 'any other lawful quarry' conditions are applied for from the off?

I find it difficult to understand the thought processes that are behind any FLD decision to try and limit the use of a firearm on lesser quarry species to specific circumstances. If it fits the bill in terms of legality or being able to deliver a humane kill, where is the issue and what purpose does a restriction serve other than to inconvenience the FAC holder?

"It is critical to use Chapter 13 in ‘Firearms Law: Guidance to the Police 2002’ as a guide for the ‘initial reason’ the firearm is sought. The “No’s” in the chart on page 77 do not prohibit calibres from being utilised on smaller species. Where larger rifles are sought to shoot smaller species, once initial good reason has been demonstrated, secondary quarry species should be allowed. Such applications may be perceived to be outside the realms of Page 77’s chart; however the primary concern for licensing staff should be whether the calibre is capable of achieving a humane dispatch of the quarry species concerned. Chapter 13.14 and 13.22 of ‘Firearms Law: Guidance to the Police 2002’ explains about dealing with reasonable eventualities in detail."

From BASC Advice to Enquiry Officers: Energy Comparisons.
 
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ah bordersman you know where im coming from dont you.

orion thank you for pm i appreciate it. my feo has been very helpful thus far and im sure when i talk to him tomorrow he will advise me to send it back to be changed to an open ticket. on the fox front i have been told it wouldnt be put on my ticket for the 308 as they dont like to encourage large calibres potentially being used a lot at night. less frangible bullets / back stop etc. but if i so happened to be asked to deal with a fox on the land i stalk on then i could use it. this is fine but i dont want to come a cropper if some kind hearted soul called the police for a disturbance and i find im in hot water for shooting a fox with out it being on my ticket. i also asked about wild boar and was told unless i can prove that wild boar are on the land i shoot on then i cant have that either. but again if i was out stalking and a pig so happened to appear then it would be ok. all a bit wishy washy i think. i then asked about the term any other wildlife and if this didnt mean fox and boar what did it mean. not much of an answer given to that one.
i will keep you all posted and thankyou for the advise
just waiting for rifle to be screw cut and im off to try it. cant wait:D
 
hi got 22lr 22.250 243 all open fao wouldnt put my 308 open at first said he would after 6 mths if i could show i had used it plenty ie bullet purchase reciepts for outings . as a keeper i requested the centre fires should have fox on them and that was ok and the 243 308 deer also he wouldnt put boar on the 308 untill i had an invite to stalk . i use the 308 plenty but didnt bother opening it ,most of my stalking it has been approved for 30 cal anyway .
 
interesting. i have shot more deer than foxes with my 243 but that dosnt seem to make any differance. as far as receipts for bullets go i had a similar situation with my 22 rimfire. if i got through enough rounds then i would get an open ticket. so what was to stop me just shooting targets in a field and then applying. in theory if you use less rounds your a better shot;). i will see what they have to say tomorrow. the ground i shoot on are in fairly small bits so i dont get through many rounds anyway if the deer are there great if not not much hope of seeing anything.
 
orion
i spoke to my feo today. he said i should send my ticket back and ask for it to be open on the 308. he did ask how long i had had my 243 and how many rounds i had got through in that time. but i should send it back and tell tham as i shoot on multiple pieces of land and always put safety before a shot with my 243 then the 308 should be on an open ticket.

just need to word it properly now:scared:

regards pj
 
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