Ready for DSC2 ?????

simon t

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking of doing the DSC2, but I know I'm not quite ready yet...Im ok with the stalk, safety, shot placement etc but still not 100% with naming all the glands during the gralloch.
So if anyone has a good way of remebering them it would be appreciated.

Also from guys who have done the dsc2 before what type of experience had you before doing it i.e number of deer shot, years experience of deer, number of gralloch's etc..
 
Well here is a way i get chaps to remeber one Mesenteric is found in the Bell area and if you get this one wrong you will get in a right Mess.

SUBMAXILLARY THIS ONE IS JUST BELOW THE SURFACE SUB
 
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Simon

There isn't a standard answer to whether or not you are ready to proceed with this. I suggest you identify an AW local to you and discuss the matter face-to-face, he will also outline what his expectations are in terms of identifying lymph nodes. My father had over 60 years stalking experience before doing his DSC II, I suggest you don't wait quite that long.

Good luck. JCS
 
still not 100% with naming all the glands during the gralloch.
So if anyone has a good way of remebering them it would be appreciated.
.


Willie_gunn's way of remembering helped me a lot.

The best I could come up with was:

Stalking Roe Bucks Makes People Mad

Meaning, of course

Submaxillary - under the mouth
Retropharyngeal - back of throat
Bronchial - windpipe
Mediastinal - middle of lungs
Portal - near the liver
Mesenteric - on the intestines

I'm sure other people can think of better mnemonics than mine (aha, a new competition!). and yes, I know it's only six words to remember. :oops:

For all their supposed faults, the DCS has a very good Best Practice section on this at http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk...s_inspect.aspx and http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk...inspect02.aspx
but sadly these weren't around when I did my DSC2.

willie_gunn
 
You dont have to remember them all. You have to find them all, that's it.
Anyone asking you "Which one of these is Retropharyngeal" is a bad AW. :stir:

Greg
 
This is where more knowledge of anatomy helps - the names are purely descriptive of their location.

Submandibular [submaxillary is very old terminology] - under the mandible - which is the correct name for the lower jaw
Retropharyngeal - The pharynx is the back of the throat - think what pharyngitis affects!
Bronchial - The bronchus is the larger airway in the lung - what the trachea [windpipe] splits into.
Mediastinal - middle of lungs,
Portal - The hepatic portal vein takes blood from the intestines to the liver
Mesenteric - the sheet of tissue that suspends and nourishes the jejunum [small intestine] is called the mesentry - the mesenteric LN's located relative to that.

As I read back what I have typed I fear I may have confused the issue rather than helped.
 
Maybe its just me but I can never find the Bronchial, Retropharyngeal was tricky (i.e impossible) to find aswell until I watched the BDS gralloching DVD.
 
Maybe its just me but I can never find the Bronchial, Retropharyngeal was tricky (i.e impossible) to find aswell until I watched the BDS gralloching DVD.

Would have thought them being small and hard to find was a good sign; if they were up like golf balls on the other hand....

I've read this thread with some interest. I've completed my level 1 (just) and have been pondering how to go about getting DSC 2.
My motivation is simply that I like to learn stuff and if this opens doors for more stalking then it is a good thing for me.

However, I thought the idea behind the l2 is that you get someone who can mentor you and teach you stuff.
I didn't think the expectation was that you'd pitch up day one knowing everything, or am I off piste?
 
Would have thought them being small and hard to find was a good sign; if they were up like golf balls on the other hand....

I've read this thread with some interest. I've completed my level 1 (just) and have been pondering how to go about getting DSC 2.
My motivation is simply that I like to learn stuff and if this opens doors for more stalking then it is a good thing for me.

However, I thought the idea behind the l2 is that you get someone who can mentor you and teach you stuff.
I didn't think the expectation was that you'd pitch up day one knowing everything, or am I off piste?

The completion of the DSC2 portfolio is the evidence gathering and assessment part of the process. The learning and experience gaining must come first, long before you register for DSC2.

I would have thought that any candidates who are considering undertaking DSC2 should already have the knowledge and experience to name, locate and assess those lymph glands that are routinely checked during gralloching and lardering. This is basic stuff and should have been taught on any DSC1 course.

I don't mean to sound critical or pompus but, in answer to your question, yes, you should pitch up to your first assessed stalk knowing this sort of thing.

I do apprecieate that it is sometimes hard to gain experience especially if you are stalking infrequently or having to pay for each stalk, but no-one said it was easy.

I so wish that rather than levels 'one' and 'two', the words 'Basic' and 'Advanced' had been used, people would then have a clearer idea of the standards required.

JC
 
Sorry if I singled out your post to reply to, could of used any really. Best wishes, JC

JC- for me it's not so much the location but the names of them.
I agree that DSC1 is basic level, hence this post on what we would expect to have to know more of in the L2 when performing a gralloch e.g to know the names.
But I suppose this is all down to your AW as well, so it seems best bet would be to have a face to face with him
 
JC- for me it's not so much the location but the names of them.
I agree that DSC1 is basic level, hence this post on what we would expect to have to know more of in the L2 when performing a gralloch e.g to know the names.
But I suppose this is all down to your AW as well, so it seems best bet would be to have a face to face with him

Send me your email address mate and I'll forward you a copy of the latest AW contact list (if I can find it!) that way you can give one of the local guys a ring and have a chat before you sign up. Any AW worth his salt would rather spend 15 mins talking to a prospective candidate than waste three or four hours witnessing someone who really need training. I think that this is where a lot of the bad feeling comes into it. JC
 
Send me your email address mate and I'll forward you a copy of the latest AW contact list (if I can find it!) that way you can give one of the local guys a ring and have a chat before you sign up. Any AW worth his salt would rather spend 15 mins talking to a prospective candidate than waste three or four hours witnessing someone who really need training. I think that this is where a lot of the bad feeling comes into it. JC

PM with email address sent, cheers
 
As I have already stated I had left commericial stalking in 1981. I returned on retirement in 2008. In between I had never stalked a deer or fired a full bore rifle. Waiting for my FAC to come through I sat and passed level one. With a 27 year gap you could say I was rank novice in terms of current experience. With use of the book, deerquest and a borrowed rifle I sat the test. It is possible to pass without actually shooting, gralloching and lardering a deer. It is purely a paper exercise taught from a book with a bit of shooting at paper targets. Level two is a bit more as it requires competence. But that competence is down to familiarity with the tools used. Rifle, knife, rope, etc. Three deer does not make you an advanced stalker. I can locate nodes, identify and assess their condition. If clear I don't need to name them and I certainly could not spell them. It is more important to know the action required when they are not normal. Competence comes from Confidence, confidence comes from practice. Jim
 
As I have already stated I had left commericial stalking in 1981. I returned on retirement in 2008. In between I had never stalked a deer or fired a full bore rifle. Waiting for my FAC to come through I sat and passed level one. With a 27 year gap you could say I was rank novice in terms of current experience. With use of the book, deerquest and a borrowed rifle I sat the test. It is possible to pass without actually shooting, gralloching and lardering a deer. It is purely a paper exercise taught from a book with a bit of shooting at paper targets. Level two is a bit more as it requires competence. But that competence is down to familiarity with the tools used. Rifle, knife, rope, etc. Three deer does not make you an advanced stalker. I can locate nodes, identify and assess their condition. If clear I don't need to name them and I certainly could not spell them. It is more important to know the action required when they are not normal. Competence comes from Confidence, confidence comes from practice. Jim

+1

You dont have to remember the names. The main point of level 2 assessment is clean gralloch and identifying any abnormalities. As long as you can find all glands and know what it means if you found enlarged glands or anything abnormal, that is all you need.

Greg
 
Three deer does not make you an advanced stalker. I can locate nodes, identify and assess their condition. If clear I don't need to name them and I certainly could not spell them. It is more important to know the action required when they are not normal. Competence comes from Confidence, confidence comes from practice. Jim

Not disagreeing with you here Jim, Three deer don't make you an advanced stalker but it is extreemly unlikely that the three deer that someone is witnessed stalking will be their first three.

Also true that if the lymph glands are normal you won't need to name (however, as an AW, I would expect you to. You won't 'fail' if you can't but I would record the fact that I asked the question and you couldn't answer it) or spell them but if they are not normal how are you going to report it or even seek further advice if you don't know the names?

I also agree with the competence/confidence/practice thing but that has to assume that a person is doing it right in the first place? I know a few guys who shoot a lot of deer but don't know their bums from their elbows and wouldn't know what a lymph node was if they choked on it!

JC
 
+1

You dont have to remember the names. The main point of level 2 assessment is clean gralloch and identifying any abnormalities. As long as you can find all glands and know what it means if you found enlarged glands or anything abnormal, that is all you need.

Greg

OK, so technically you don't 'have' to know the names but where is the personal pride knowing your subject and bringing your skills and knowledge up to a high standard? I do not wish to act as an AW for anyone who wants to scrape by at a minimum level of knowledge and experience, trust me, its bloody hard work when people come to you with this attitude. JC
 
Not disagreeing with you here Jim, Three deer don't make you an advanced stalker but it is extreemly unlikely that the three deer that someone is witnessed stalking will be their first three.

Also true that if the lymph glands are normal you won't need to name (however, as an AW, I would expect you to. You won't 'fail' if you can't but I would record the fact that I asked the question and you couldn't answer it) or spell them but if they are not normal how are you going to report it or even seek further advice if you don't know the names?

I also agree with the competence/confidence/practice thing but that has to assume that a person is doing it right in the first place? I know a few guys who shoot a lot of deer but don't know their bums from their elbows and wouldn't know what a lymph node was if they choked on it!

JC
Deer stalkin level2, Three stalks in a weekend on park deer as advertised on ebay used to be the norm. Don't know if they still do it. It would be difficult to pass from stalk one. However it would not take many grallochs to gain the required competence. Most coming in will have handled other game.
While I may not remember that the submax is in the lower jaw I would have little difficulty telling the head vet the lymgh node on the gut was swollen.
The fact that there are a lot of stalker that treat the gralloch like gutting a big rabbit and cash in asap is the reason the wane bill is getting so much credibility. If successful the registered stalkers only could decimate stalker numbers especially the next generation stalkers.
Jim
 
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