Page 1 of 13 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 121

Thread: Are DMG's a con job

  1. #1

    Are DMG's a con job

    Last night the WLDMG had a meeting. Productive and forward looking. However I have never been happy about the millions of acres of new woodland arguement. As we have seen a wee bit of wood put up for syndication is soon over subscribed. One thing I have noticed in interviews recently is the acceptance and promotion of deer management by the antis and pressure groups. Their tack is "Yes deer have to be controlled but not in the name of sport. Take it a stage further by taking out the sports stalkers. The hole left in provision is vast. If you travel from York to Dumfies to cull is it sport or essencial work? To shut down the sports eliment of stalking you need teams on the ground to control deer numbers. SNH are advocating DMG formation. As yet that is not manifesting itself into ground to control. With the amount of money pumped in in management terms really by now it should.
    Are we a safety valve if and when the anti-sports body gets its way?

    I could at this stage progress that thought but I will throw the speculation open to others/
    Jim
    Last edited by jimbo123p; 25-03-2011 at 09:38.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo123p View Post
    Last night the WLDMG had a meeting. Productive and forward looking. However I have never been happy about the millions of acres of new woodland arguement. As we have seen a wee bit of wood put up for syndication is soon over subscribed. One thing I have noticed in interviews recently is the acceptance and promotion of deer management by the antis and pressure groups. Their tack is "Yes deer have to be controlled but not in the name of sport. Take it a stage further by taking out the sports stalkers. The hole left in provision is vast. If you travel from York to Dumfies to cull is it sport or essencial work? To shut down the sports eliment of stalking you need teams on the ground to control deer numbers. SNH are advocating DMG formation. As yet that is not manifesting itself into ground to control. With the amount of money pumped in in management terms really by now it should.
    Are we a safety valve if and when the anti-sports body gets its way?

    I could at this stage progress that thought but I will throw the speculation open to others/
    Jim
    Could you clarify what the following stand for

    WLDMG

    SNH

    DMG

    Thanks

  3. #3
    West Lothian deer management group, Scottish Natural Heritage, and Deer management group. When Deer Commission Scotland was swallowed up by SNH there was a vast swing to promote local groups forming Deer Management groups through central Scotland. To do so SNH formed a management team with high profile employees found the most prominant being Ronnie Rose.
    Jim
    Last edited by jimbo123p; 25-03-2011 at 10:04.

  4. #4
    Jim, in Scotland we have had DMGs for a long time almost all hill stalking will come under a DMG in most cases they work well enough area groups are made up of those with an interest in deer in an area, basically landowners or lease holders
    counts and culls are set for an area, a DMG will cover that area they will decide how cull will be proportioned.

    I know what I mean and how it works but don't think I have explained very well hopefully some of the other hill men will explain it better.

    Also though this system works well enough for the hill not sure how it would work in a low ground situation where you could have a lot of much smaller pieces of land, and a lot more conflict of interest.

  5. #5
    Jim, I have said this before, this whole bull**** proposition that we are somehow "deer managers" is just rubbish.

    There are really very few stalkers who are genuinely deer managers. Some of us are stalkers who love the sport, some are "professionals" who earn their living guiding paying punters and some are paid / contract cullers, - no doubt there are other sub groups.

    The outcome of all these activities is (a) a necessary reduction in the deer numbers, (b) a supply of top quality meat, and (c) some guys earn a living.

    I see a very undesireable drift towards "professional culling / managing" as being somehow virtuous and acceptable to the BBC types, and the condemnation of the rest of us as bloody thirsty savages and throw backs. Undoubtedly some of the "professionals" are happy for this to happen.

    No one should be fooled by this apparent opinion swing. Either all shooters, deerstalkers etc stand together or we will be picked off one by one. We all saw the LACS d1ckhead interviewed by the BBC in Robbo's little programme. Deer numbers should be controlled by natural means - disease, starvation, and in Scotlannd, wolves. This is what these guys really believe. We all know they are a small minority, but they are vociferous and indulged by the likes of the BBC.

    Anyway to relate this to DMG's, all I see are self appointed "experts" who want to take control of the stalking of big swathes of ground, exclude the likes of ye and me, and basically make money out of this.

    If you analysis the vast majority of unpleasant human behaviours, it generally comes down to the pursuit of money.
    Last edited by Claret_Dabbler; 25-03-2011 at 10:33.
    Brian.

    Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you......

  6. #6
    Reply to Bogtrotter
    The remits between the original and that promoted by SNH are vastly different. The local dmg's are groups of individuals not landowners/holders set up as a volenteer body to help manage deer in an area. The original deer management groups landowners that manage deer for their numbers and sporting potential. These group members tend to be the likes of Atholl where land holdings are in thousands of acres. The dmg I am part of covers West Lothian but while most members do stalk within the bounderies the idea is to get collaborative deer management where land ownership is far less formal. We have vast areas of industrial estates with huge area of untended green land around. Old coal workings, forestry, council holdings, motorway networks, Green areas where there are little control of deer numbers other than poachers. If it is green there is high public access with the relivent hazzards. SNH do recognise the necessity of controlling deer numbers in these areaswhere there can be a public outcry if Bambi is scratched. Remember I am from up your way. I worked on deer estates for key members of the deer management groups. Deer management central Scotland is a completely different ball game. My question re the con is "Are moves afoot to ban deer stalking for sport?"
    Jim
    Last edited by jimbo123p; 25-03-2011 at 10:39. Reason: post reply to Bogtrotter

  7. #7
    Gents before going off half cocked here, there was consultation by the Forestry Commission research teams with reference to Peri urban Deer management ,due to the huge numbers of Deer within town and city limits, to collate and find ways to reduce such numbers, as there had been various Deer problems IE road traffic accidents Deer in gardens, unsuitable areas etc .

    There was a DCS best practice day, at Mudock park north of Glasgow, set up as a Peri urban Deer day showing the problems with current restrictions and problems, in controlling the large Deer numbers currently within the problem areas, green belt areas in towns etc .

    The day it's self went well with information being passed back and forth between DCS , FC and the stalkers present a excellent cross section of people , this is one of the reasons that some stalkers, have taken to initiative and started Deer management groups ,knowing as a single person trying to open doors with councils etc there would have little or no chance ,but as a group constituted with a sole intention of carrying out peri urban deer management under the direction of SNH/DCS best practice, would further strengthen the cause for Peri urban Deer management .

    Claret dabbler your self appointed experts are the members of staff of the SNH/DCS, which heading up the team is Ronald Rose the collaborative Deer manager for SNH a world renowned "expert" in his field ,so yes there area at least one person knows what he's talking about there's also Jamie Hammond DCS central Scotland Deer officer , who will come out and check all problem areas, further clarifying Deer problems with a thermal imaging camera .

    Large areas of land mmmm No sorry from about 2 acres to 100 plus acres of land ,some of it old brown field site some of it current park land, but mainly newly planted community granted forestry and shrubbery areas, Roe Deer as we all know will live any where the get peace, to do so that is fact, for those that know Glasgow Airport there's a Roe Deer buck living on a roundabout 100 mtrs from the terminal building quite happy with himself .

    Therefore before we all have a hissy fit saying what a load of shjte, think about the work that has went into it firstly ,SNH/DCS has had a huge part, in generating Urban Deer management groups, I wonder why, could it be because they see a problem, with Roe Deer ,thus wanting local stalkers who have the same qualifications as professional contractors to carry out the local Deer management.

  8. #8
    At this moment in time SNH/DCS are treading very carfully and there past mishaps up north could almost bring down a council or government was it to happen were we are. I cannot imgaine pictures of Deer getting swung over the briget or rose street going down to well with the General public. I als saw the DCS/SNH try and deal with a very simple problem of a few deer in a factory ground Diagios whisky plant and there was an outcry at they way it was done. They have helpped the groups to a point but will not promote them and the reasons i have just put up and others are why.If the **** hits the fan and there is a problem with local deer groups and the General public it will go back at them. There are no real deer problems at this moment even though we have good numbers in certain areas.A few deer hit on the roads is not a problem and will not go away no mater what we do.In fact in the central belt area 10 x more accidents are cause by foxes than deer. At the forrestry Research did there public opiniondata collaction it became very clear that the public wnat no deer culled and all other options must be conciderd first. The problem is not now it is in the near future when the CSGN moves into full flow 12,000 hec of new comunity planting a year and no real control in the small areas means deer will multiply at an alaming rate. Deer groups MIGHT fit in to this nich. Plantings to small for leaseing not suitable for a contractor who will not control him self because he is cash motovated FC rangers might do it but that would mean the goverment realeasing more cash to the deer industry. There is only only one more option Deer Groups not regulated by government but trained enough for Governments support. How to support them with out supporting them is the key.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Claret_Dabbler View Post
    Anyway to relate this to DMG's, all I see are self appointed "experts" who want to take control of the stalking of big swathes of ground, exclude the likes of ye and me, and basically make money out of this.
    If you're forming a political party Brian sign me up! The one thing deer stalking needs is fewer, rather than more, interferring busy bodies.

  10. #10
    On the whole bigger area commercial stalking enterprises are better than the majority of stalking syndicates. The reason being to earn they must produce. To produce they must kill deer. How long would yorshire stalking or any other enterprise succeed if they did not put clients in front of deer? They therefore manage no matter the weather. syndicates tend to work, take it or leave it if conditions are not right. However it is not the reason for the thread. I was at Mugdock for the best practice meeting. However, fox hunting got the bullet, stalking is the next in line. The antis have not gone away. To ban stalking as such deer still needs to be controlled. The question is who by?
    Jim

Similar Threads

  1. For Sale LEUPOLD Rifleman 3-9x40 mint con
    By miffy in forum Deer Stalking Equipment
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 25-01-2011, 23:11
  2. New to the job.
    By AdamH in forum Ammunition, Reloading & Ballistics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-12-2010, 18:40
  3. Job Done!
    By Lakey in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-05-2010, 18:19
  4. Scotland Central Belt DMG's
    By jimbo123p in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-02-2010, 14:27

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •