Warning. Lock them away.

Rowey

Well-Known Member
A mate of mine after a few beers had a row with his wife last weekend. There was no hint of violence but she felt scared and rang the police. What happened next was shocking but not surprising given the current climate and debate on gun control. At 4am he could hear someone shouting his name. He looked out of the window to see a torch being shined back at him. It was the police. They gave him no time to dress but told him to come straight down and outside. He was greeted by 2 ARV's, 2 dog handlers and a shedload of officers with guns trained on him. The road was closed off and he was cuffed in the middle of it with neighbours up and looking on. He is in a big crock of sh!t. He had left his ticket in his lorry and that didn't go down well either. I'm not here to moralise. He's a good mate and made big mistakes which he may well pay a big price for. It was a wake up call for me. I use my rifles everyday and if I'm honest they don't always go straight back in the cabinet as I will go back out later. My ticket was in my glovebox of my motor. His life and job are on the line now but it could've been easily avoided. There are lessons we can all learn from this.
 
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Loaded guns left out of a cabinet!!!!!!

Were they brought out before or after he had the argument that caused the police to be called, although not that that makes a difference and as this is his excuse how many loaded guns did he plan on taking with him the next morning? Guns left out empty before you go to bed in a slip at the side of the bed to avoid disturbing the whole house by banging about in a metal gun cabinet is one thing. What he has done is unbelievable.

What possibly can you learn from this unless this is a practice you employ yourself? My guns can be out 4 or 5 times a week and I have never left a loaded gun in the house. Late home one night and out the first thing next morning I put my hands up to it being left at the side of my bed with the ammunition elsewhere, none of us are perfect but this story causes me no sympathy whatsover towards your mate!
 
I think the important point is when not in use get your guns and ammo locked away because it's easy to get caught out.
 
I always thought it was legal to have your gun out of the cabinet if you were in residence at the time ?
 
Loaded guns left out of a cabinet!!!!!!

Were they brought out before or after he had the argument that caused the police to be called, although not that that makes a difference and as this is his excuse how many loaded guns did he plan on taking with him the next morning? Guns left out empty before you go to bed in a slip at the side of the bed to avoid disturbing the whole house by banging about in a metal gun cabinet is one thing. What he has done is unbelievable.

What possibly can you learn from this unless this is a practice you employ yourself? My guns can be out 4 or 5 times a week and I have never left a loaded gun in the house. Late home one night and out the first thing next morning I put my hands up to it being left at the side of my bed with the ammunition elsewhere, none of us are perfect but this story causes me no sympathy whatsover towards your mate!
Didn't post it to seek your sympathy or advocate any of his practices which are clearly wrong. Read it again slowly. He will pay the price quite possibly with a custodial sentence. What I am saying is that no one is whiter than white. Just best to put them away even if you are knackered. I've come in times from lamping at 2am to leave again at 4.30am and not bothered to put them away as soon as I got in. What I will learn is not to do it in the future. If it stops any of us from making a similar balls up in future then it will have been worth it. Your own reply says you left yours out. The police stance is that this is out of order full stop. I've done it times and kept my ticket and occasionally ammo in my vehicle but it won't happen again and I use mine 7 days a week
 
I leave my rifle out untill it is completly dry and that can be a good couple of hours before it gets put away no crime at all. I had a visit from my FLO while my rifle was lieing on the couch he did say why is that out i told him i am just back and certainly have not had time to sort it. But never have i had a loaded rifle in the house for any reason.
 
Don't leave mine out as a rule, other than as 6pointer says to dry, and certainly never loaded magazines in the house, but I am guilty of leaving my ticket in my truck,as my work takes me all over the country then its always to hand if asked to produce it, maybe have to rethink that one.
 
Many years ago iwas guilty of not locking guns away,wife was forever complaining about this...

It came to an end one day, on returning from work the wife said that there had been some kids climbing on the shed roof and refusing to get down,when i asked what she had done she casualy replied one of your guns was in the cuboard so i pointed it out of the window, that soon shifted them she said...

My first reaction was to sh*t myself,before screaming at her, she started laughing saying she was only joking,but would i please lock them away,believe me it had the desired affect.....
 
Bogtrotter,

Big difference in law between "in your possession" and "on your possession".

One means that you actually have it, the other means you have it upon your person.

A photo copy is an "aide memoire" that you can use to direct the relevant inquirer as opposed to the enquirer.

Stan
 
Didn't post it to seek your sympathy or advocate any of his practices which are clearly wrong. Read it again slowly. He will pay the price quite possibly with a custodial sentence. What I am saying is that no one is whiter than white. Just best to put them away even if you are knackered. I've come in times from lamping at 2am to leave again at 4.30am and not bothered to put them away as soon as I got in. What I will learn is not to do it in the future. If it stops any of us from making a similar balls up in future then it will have been worth it. Your own reply says you left yours out. The police stance is that this is out of order full stop. I've done it times and kept my ticket and occasionally ammo in my vehicle but it won't happen again and I use mine 7 days a week


Grasped it first time reading it quite quickly.

My point about leaving mine out on occasion was to highlight I am not one of those holier than thou types but on the other hand no excuse with it being loaded!
 
I am certainly in no position to judge and I do not intend to as there may well be circumstances here that we do not know about, so I will only generalise. Firstly, I think we should all agree that alcohol and/or drugs and firearms never go well or safely together. Secondly, fully loaded firearms left out of the cabinet overnight, surely that is quite simply a big and definite No No and asking for trouble! Then to top it all an unregistered shotgun on the property - That is surely asking for trouble!
Even though you say there was no threat of voilence (At the time of the arguing) why was his wife worried enough to feel that she needed to call the police - Might there be some details or past issues that caused her so much concern? I am sorry but there are far too many points here that say the situation was more than questionable.
Why were some of the guns fully loaded and left as such overnight indoors, in my opinion this is a cardinal sin and unforgivable? Let's face it, even if you have an early morning stalk arranged it only takes a few seconds to load your magazines when you get to your shoot! OK, you might say that with a hangover you might fumble a little loading the magazines, but if your hangover is such that you are going to fumble just loading the magazine then you need to ask yourself "Am I in a fit state to shoot a rifle safely"!
I'm sorry but (In my opinion) there is just no excuse for having a loaded rifle in your home, especially leaving it loaded overnight!
There is no substitute for safety where any firearms are concerned!
 
I am certainly in no position to judge and I do not intend to as there may well be circumstances here that we do not know about, so I will only generalise. Firstly, I think we should all agree that alcohol and/or drugs and firearms never go well or safely together. Secondly, fully loaded firearms left out of the cabinet overnight, surely that is quite simply a big and definite No No and asking for trouble! Then to top it all an unregistered shotgun on the property - That is surely asking for trouble!
Even though you say there was no threat of voilence (At the time of the arguing) why was his wife worried enough to feel that she needed to call the police - Might there be some details or past issues that caused her so much concern? I am sorry but there are far too many points here that say the situation was more than questionable.
Why were some of the guns fully loaded and left as such overnight indoors, in my opinion this is a cardinal sin and unforgivable? Let's face it, even if you have an early morning stalk arranged it only takes a few seconds to load your magazines when you get to your shoot! OK, you might say that with a hangover you might fumble a little loading the magazines, but if your hangover is such that you are going to fumble just loading the magazine then you need to ask yourself "Am I in a fit state to shoot a rifle safely"!
I'm sorry but (In my opinion) there is just no excuse for having a loaded rifle in your home, especially leaving it loaded overnight!
There is no substitute for safety where any firearms are concerned!

There are always 2 sides to every story and the full circumstances are not yet fully known. The original intention of the post was to state that a few beers and a row ended up with an out of control mess which could have been avoided. The actual practises of the individual will no doubt haunt him for the rest of his days but he alone will pay the price. Alcohol and guns don't mix but not many on here can say they don't occasionally have one too many and have a barney with the good lady. The truth is that as firearms users we do have to be more careful. I have edited the original post as some seem to think I was defending what happened. I am not, nor was I ever doing so. He's ballsed up bigtime but he is still a friend and he has a previous unblemished record of 32 years. Whats done is done. If it makes people think then it will have been worth it.
 
Think we are turning into some kind of weird culture where common sense goes out the window and we all accept that we should do things as we are told often by people who know (significantly) less than we do.
Cant comment on your mate as most of the thread has been edited but alcohol and "loaded" weapons is a silly combination. I personally know someone who lost his guns because of a simple DUI offence.

Couple that with any kind of reported domestic (and I suspect previous) and it is sometimes easy to see why police respond this way. (maybe if they did their homework and responded in this way with others we wouldn't have had Derek Bird wandering around having been in this exact situation shortly before his SGC/FAC renewal but that is another topic entirely)
If he was ****ed and had loads of guns lying around loaded (and by that I mean with ammunition in them, as opposed the police definition of a rifle with a bolt in it!) and some unregistered then he is an idiot.
Bad luck aside, I have had numerous "barneys" over the years, not one of them resulted in the police coming round (regardless of my at home firearms practices).


But lets not get into a high horsed evangelical blanket statements about safe practice.
Why shouldn't I have a loaded gun in my house?
Its my house and my gun.
I decide when to load it and what is safe not the police.
30 years of shooting, never having an accident, never having had an "accidental discharge" (which is more than I can say than most Armed Response Units!, you should see the stats!), never having had a firearm lost, stolen or otherwise removed from my possession/control. Rifles are (and have been by my father and his father, and his father's father before him) kept in the cabinet with the bolts IN, sometimes I even have even put some ammunition in the same cabinet! (oh the horror!:eek:).

If I am on someone else's property or the use of my firearm is under someone else's control (i.e. shoots and ranges) then fine, tell me what to do and when.

If an FLO came to my house without an appointment and asked me why my gun was "out of it's cupboard lying on a couch" I am afraid it is none of his business. It's my house and my gun.

Ever lived on a farm? Had problems with foxes in the garden raiding the hen house?
Gone to sleep with gun by your bed?
Think the fox in your garden is going to give you time to nip downstairs, unlock the cabinet, find your bolt, load, sneak back upstairs, open the window and shoot it?
Ideal situation? No.
Occupying a locked house at night with my wife and having a weapon by the bed is not the worst thing in the world or some kind of heinous crime worthy of the police's attention.
Christ one of their supposedly "responsible" armed police officers left a bloody AR15 magazine in a baby's bed during a search/raid! Bet he didnt lose his license or have an ARU turn up and cuff him in his boxer shorts out in the street!.

I regularly load live rounds into my rifles at home to see if they chamber/eject easily. I am not going to do this just before a stalk/shoot to find out they dont!
I dont double check the mortice lock on the front door, all the window locks and pull the curtains before I open my gun cabinet either!

My second issue is this ongoing argument that I should have my FAC tattooed to my chest on the off chance that someone wants to see it.
Get a grip.
Its a piece of paper, my copy of a certificate granted to me by the police, who have access to infinitely more information than that held on my four sides of A4.
Not one of the 4 conditions on it detail that I should have it in my pyjama pocket in case of ARU visits.
They already know you have guns and are an FAC holder otherwise they would be there would they?!
So what if it is in his car, truck, glove box, bag under the bed, wife's purse?
It's your house!

I dont even carry my driving license on me all the time and I am statistically significantly more likely to kill multiple people with my car by looking at some mini skirted passer by than I am ANYTIME I go shooting!

what next?
Phoning the police to ask permission to collect my gun from their secure unit so I can go out and use it under supervision on recently risk assessed land and after a full health and safety refresh and competency test!?

sorry, rant over. but this cotton wool, health and safety, no win no fee, nanny state we now seem to live in is driving me nuts!
(not "nuts" in a psychopathic way!! before anyone feels the need to contact my local police ARU to pay me a visit........)
 
Think we are turning into some kind of weird culture where common sense goes out the window and we all accept that we should do things as we are told often by people who know (significantly) less than we do.
Cant comment on your mate as most of the thread has been edited but alcohol and "loaded" weapons is a silly combination. I personally know someone who lost his guns because of a simple DUI offence.

Couple that with any kind of reported domestic (and I suspect previous) and it is sometimes easy to see why police respond this way. (maybe if they did their homework and responded in this way with others we wouldn't have had Derek Bird wandering around having been in this exact situation shortly before his SGC/FAC renewal but that is another topic entirely)
If he was ****ed and had loads of guns lying around loaded (and by that I mean with ammunition in them, as opposed the police definition of a rifle with a bolt in it!) and some unregistered then he is an idiot.
Bad luck aside, I have had numerous "barneys" over the years, not one of them resulted in the police coming round (regardless of my at home firearms practices).


But lets not get into a high horsed evangelical blanket statements about safe practice.
Why shouldn't I have a loaded gun in my house?
Its my house and my gun.
I decide when to load it and what is safe not the police.
30 years of shooting, never having an accident, never having had an "accidental discharge" (which is more than I can say than most Armed Response Units!, you should see the stats!), never having had a firearm lost, stolen or otherwise removed from my possession/control. Rifles are (and have been by my father and his father, and his father's father before him) kept in the cabinet with the bolts IN, sometimes I even have even put some ammunition in the same cabinet! (oh the horror!:eek:).

If I am on someone else's property or the use of my firearm is under someone else's control (i.e. shoots and ranges) then fine, tell me what to do and when.

If an FLO came to my house without an appointment and asked me why my gun was "out of it's cupboard lying on a couch" I am afraid it is none of his business. It's my house and my gun.

Ever lived on a farm? Had problems with foxes in the garden raiding the hen house?
Gone to sleep with gun by your bed?
Think the fox in your garden is going to give you time to nip downstairs, unlock the cabinet, find your bolt, load, sneak back upstairs, open the window and shoot it?
Ideal situation? No.
Occupying a locked house at night with my wife and having a weapon by the bed is not the worst thing in the world or some kind of heinous crime worthy of the police's attention.
Christ one of their supposedly "responsible" armed police officers left a bloody AR15 magazine in a baby's bed during a search/raid! Bet he didnt lose his license or have an ARU turn up and cuff him in his boxer shorts out in the street!.

I regularly load live rounds into my rifles at home to see if they chamber/eject easily. I am not going to do this just before a stalk/shoot to find out they dont!
I dont double check the mortice lock on the front door, all the window locks and pull the curtains before I open my gun cabinet either!

My second issue is this ongoing argument that I should have my FAC tattooed to my chest on the off chance that someone wants to see it.
Get a grip.
Its a piece of paper, my copy of a certificate granted to me by the police, who have access to infinitely more information than that held on my four sides of A4.
Not one of the 4 conditions on it detail that I should have it in my pyjama pocket in case of ARU visits.
They already know you have guns and are an FAC holder otherwise they would be there would they?!
So what if it is in his car, truck, glove box, bag under the bed, wife's purse?
It's your house!

I dont even carry my driving license on me all the time and I am statistically significantly more likely to kill multiple people with my car by looking at some mini skirted passer by than I am ANYTIME I go shooting!

what next?
Phoning the police to ask permission to collect my gun from their secure unit so I can go out and use it under supervision on recently risk assessed land and after a full health and safety refresh and competency test!?

sorry, rant over. but this cotton wool, health and safety, no win no fee, nanny state we now seem to live in is driving me nuts!
(not "nuts" in a psychopathic way!! before anyone feels the need to contact my local police ARU to pay me a visit........)

Bewsher 500
I wish that i could have put like that :tiphat: good man.

bob
 
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