roe per acre

webby954

Well-Known Member
i know this is a bit open ended but i have been given permission on ground of nearly 1800 acres of commercial forestry which is bordered by another 2000 acres of brand new planting and was just wondering how do you work out how much deer you should have on the land to keep population in good order . the 1800 has some clear fell 300acres and about 450 new planting your thoughts much appreciated
cheers webby
 
Webby i have ground and it has been night scoped by the pro,s SNH and they say i have around.(see post by snh) The deer are all very healthy and adult weights are on average 40 lb some bucks nearer 50lb

Several large groups of deer were observed
living and feeding in green spaces immediately
beside commercial and residential property.
Using the observed numbers as a rough
estimate this would indicate a density in

excess of 40 deer km
2. This clearly highlighted

that roe deer are adapting to living in close

proximity to busy commuter road networks and
settlements. In response to this, DCS is
developing a count programme for the winter
of 2010-11 to better understand the scale and
distribution of these growing populations in



the Central Belt

I AM SURE THERE IS SOME ONE THAT CAN WORK OUT ACRES INTO KILM
 
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1800 acre = 7.28434 km²

Which equates to 291 deer on your figures ,seems a lot:D


Without actually doing a count on the ground the above figures seems to be really high I would expect considerably less
 
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Stu i didnt do the count (SNH) and would have it at around half that amount but we need to take the experts numbers if we are to get it correct. They used normal techinics and thermal imaging
 
Stu i didnt do the count (SNH) and would have it at around half that amount but we need to take the experts numbers if we are to get it correct. They used normal techinics and thermal imaging

I would have said half those figures as being the norm but you never know the figures given as you say are for that particular area the survey has been carried out on, who am I to say its incorrect:D
 
50% comprising of equal bucks and does but be selective

In the areas you have plantings you can increase it to 60% and graph off with pins on a chart/map beasts shot, different colour for each sex and also pin off sightings so you can tell where at a glance your noting more activity than others for future reference.

It builds up a positive behaviour plan as well
From this information you will be able to identify where abouts the matriatic does are and there satalite offsping and use it to your advantage in both doe cull and buck cull for were the big doe are she will be the one controlling the area and push her syblings out, whatever you do dont take her out where there are new plantings as you will see deer moving all over the place and the forest owners will not be pleased with her syblings munching her patch.
Shes the best friend of the forester for she more than the master buck widenens the feeding area of her offspring
 
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I normally shoot a 3RD of what i think my ground holds to keep it sustainable to lower the number then i increase that number. (but i am offten wrong and need to look again half way through) We estimated that we had about 100 roe on 350 acres two years ago since then we shot 25 does and 25 bucks this was to reduce numbers. We did a count and decided that we need to remove more this season. We removed over 50 does this year and are still seeing plenty. but hey we will get it right some day.;)
 
David- I'm not disputing the figures that you have quoted as there maybe local densities such as the former group of 7 in the Glasgow Necropolis (sadly poached) which distorts the figures. However, the Count carried out between Cumbernauld and Robroyston was indicating a figure of 27 per km2. This figure being verified by someone on the Count who I have shot with over the last year.

ATB
Andy
 
Hi there,

In my professional opinion, you wouldn't be far out if you work on the assumption of one deer per 20 acres (assuming you're talking about the borders) and you won't be far out.

About 90 deer (Roe) is what you should be realistically looking at.

Do you have any past records of reproductive performance in the breeding aged does that have been shot in the past, say three years? From that you'd have the basis on which to formulate a cull plan.

Please do get in touch if you need any advice on this.

Best regards,

Mike
(Director - Jelen Deer Services) http://www.jelendeer.com
 
Hi there,

In my professional opinion, you wouldn't be far out if you work on the assumption of one deer per 20 acres (assuming you're talking about the borders) and you won't be far out.

About 90 deer (Roe) is what you should be realistically looking at.

Do you have any past records of reproductive performance in the breeding aged does that have been shot in the past, say three years? From that you'd have the basis on which to formulate a cull plan.

Please do get in touch if you need any advice on this.

Best regards,

Mike
(Director - Jelen Deer Services) http://www.jelendeer.com
 
First timer i think your estimation of 27 is not a bad one i was more inclined to have it a little lower 20 -25 But may i say that the first figuer of 40+ was cut and pasted out of the 2009 2010 dcs Annual report. Please dont shoot the messanger.;) But as every one knows it is not just the grounds holding capacity that needs to be looked at but all the ground surrounding it. Are you sure the Glasgow deer were poached because i heard a differnt story.
 
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thanks all that replied i will see what old records say .mannlicher thats real good idea to do ground plan and plot were beasts seen and shot
cheers webby
 
thanks all that replied i will see what old records say .mannlicher thats real good idea to do ground plan and plot were beasts seen and shot
cheers webby

No problem mate although I cant take the credit for the plan as it was my mentors method of visual record keeping.

Cheers Stu
 
It would be well worth keeping good records, place, times, wieghts ect. Also note pregnant /non pregnant when gralloching your does. The longer the period you keep records for the more value they have in informing management desicions.
 
webby954

What does your lease say? I would have thought that with that much new planting deer numbers will need to be kept low. If the new trees are fenced then you can do what you like so long as you keep deer out of the enclosures.

As an aside I have cleared out plantations of Sika in the past and densities often exceed 40/100ha (16/100acre). Carcass weights were on the low side, but soon picked up following the cull. The Roe like young plantations and open structered woods but densities fall back in closed canopy conifer forest. I'm of the view that numbers should be kept low(ish) in established forest to avoid habitat damage and to an absolute minimum in new plantings to avoid the wrath of the forester.
 
Would it not be useful to also set up some damaging assessment monitoring and respond to that in subsequent years? <10% leader damage in the new planting.
 
For me ben that is impossible as damge is to crops of Oat,s and Barley (not much chance of me counting the leaders:lol: ). But you are correct any one who is stalking FC ground or other commercial forestry would be wise to do a NND and keep a record of what they find and see if the damage is increasing or decreasing. That way if you are ever pulled up for the damage to your nice new plants you can state facts.
Remeber you could get pulled up for a problem that was caused before you took on the plot and if you dont assess it then you will not have a leg to stand on.;)
 
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It would be well worth keeping good records, place, times, wieghts ect. Also note pregnant /non pregnant when gralloching your does. The longer the period you keep records for the more value they have in informing management desicions.

We always keep written records as well ,but the different coloured pin method on a map gives a clear indication of what areas the beasts are being shot and sex and also another different coloured pin on sightings and possible matriatic does ,so area attack culling can take place where its necessary the plan is a moving operation and can be adjusted at any time.

Thats the way he used to do it so much information at a glance for every forest application.
I do mine the same way but use different coloured tape dots over a encapsulated map then it can be overlayed in future years to see transgression in movement.
 
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