A theoretical excercise in the perfect stalking rifle

Grandhubert

Well-Known Member
I am thinking about getting a custom, if I can't find it ready made but I doubt it, stalking rifle for walking in the woods with.

I will of course continue to have dalliances with many other rifles and take all manner of kit away on foreign holidays shooting, into high seats and up the hill but don't want to mess about on this particular topic.

I have a list of attributes in mind and I would appreciate your thoughts on them and also anything that I may have missed:


  1. Calibre: A calibre with sufficient power to take all UK species without producing excessive recoil in consideration of the ideal weight given at 2. This could be anything from .243 to 30.06 depending on personal preference. For some reason I am thinking 6mmBR on the one hand, 6.5x55 or 308 at the other.
  2. Weight: Of sufficient weight not to kick the stalker to death when practising and also to hold steady enough on aim without bouncing at every heartbeat. Light enough to be carried between the hands for reasonable lengths of time without causing undue muscle fatigue. My Tikka weighs 7 1/2 pounds dry with mounts and the old meopta weighed at least a pound and a half. At 9 pounds it was at the limit of what could be comfortably carried between the hands as I discovered in Africa. I could do it for an hour or so before having to rest my arms or risk the lactic acid shakes if something did come out. I therefore think a change to a Zeiss 7x50 illuminated scope would save almost a pound on the scope and if another pound can be saved in the rifle it would have been a lot easier. I think therefore I want an all up weight of about 7-7 1/2 pounds.
  3. Barrel length: The rifle should be moderated so a 20" barrel would keep it fairly handy. I am thinking that a light moderator, ie the roedale or CMM4, would enable a barrel of not too thin profile to be profitably used.
  4. Action: A Remington action tricked up seems the most economical approach especially when stock availability is taken into account.
  5. Stock: Synthetic or carbonfibre for weather resistance and weight saving.

Am I on the right track or should there be things I should consider?

In these things, if properly considered, the whole should be more than just the sum of the individual parts.
 
I have a Sako.

I am talking about a rifle customised to fit the user like a glove in every aspect imaginable.

It's about the little things on this thread, not purely about putting venison on the ground.
 
A Blaser or Krieghoff single shot "Kipplaufbuchse" custom barreled in 303 British, topped with a 3-9x42.
When I win the lottery it'll be mine.:D
 
I am thinking about getting a custom, if I can't find it ready made but I doubt it, stalking rifle for walking in the woods with.

I will of course continue to have dalliances with many other rifles and take all manner of kit away on foreign holidays shooting, into high seats and up the hill but don't want to mess about on this particular topic.

I have a list of attributes in mind and I would appreciate your thoughts on them and also anything that I may have missed:


  1. Calibre: A calibre with sufficient power to take all UK species without producing excessive recoil in consideration of the ideal weight given at 2. This could be anything from .243 to 30.06 depending on personal preference. For some reason I am thinking 6mmBR on the one hand, 6.5x55 or 308 at the other.
  2. Weight: Of sufficient weight not to kick the stalker to death when practising and also to hold steady enough on aim without bouncing at every heartbeat. Light enough to be carried between the hands for reasonable lengths of time without causing undue muscle fatigue. My Tikka weighs 7 1/2 pounds dry with mounts and the old meopta weighed at least a pound and a half. At 9 pounds it was at the limit of what could be comfortably carried between the hands as I discovered in Africa. I could do it for an hour or so before having to rest my arms or risk the lactic acid shakes if something did come out. I therefore think a change to a Zeiss 7x50 illuminated scope would save almost a pound on the scope and if another pound can be saved in the rifle it would have been a lot easier. I think therefore I want an all up weight of about 7-7 1/2 pounds.
  3. Barrel length: The rifle should be moderated so a 20" barrel would keep it fairly handy. I am thinking that a light moderator, ie the roedale or CMM4, would enable a barrel of not too thin profile to be profitably used.
  4. Action: A Remington action tricked up seems the most economical approach especially when stock availability is taken into account.
  5. Stock: Synthetic or carbonfibre for weather resistance and weight saving.

Am I on the right track or should there be things I should consider?

In these things, if properly considered, the whole should be more than just the sum of the individual parts.



What is this all about old boy? Is the mid life crisis approaching?

You know the rifle you describe already exists - it is sitting in my gunsafe.

If you are really good, I might let you play with it....
 
If you are walking in the woods, lets stick with the 7x50 illuminated, that sounds ideal.

If you are considering going to a 6mm or even a 6.5, why not try a 6.5x47? If you are happy with 100gn to 130gn bullets it would be ideal. If I was only ever going to shoot roe, cwd or muntjac I cannot imagine anything better.

I am no fan of remington, and would rather buy a Tikka 595/590 or 695/690 to use as a base action, perhaps with a Lothar Walthar buttoned barrel fitted?

But do you want to have something that will shoot any woodland deer you may come across? Sika? Reds? Then perhaps something with a little more power may be in order.

As you have specified a shorter barrel length it precludes some of the super-powerful, ultra fast calibres. So perhaps a .308 would be ideal, especially moderated. It would allow you to shoot any buck or stag of a lifetime you could well come across in your travels and not be cumbersome to carry. It is even pig capable! There are worse choices.

Or you could try a 7mm-08? I want to!

Simon
 
OK, let's be serious, I am on your side.

Assuming we aren't talking a full blown custom action on a Rem clone action, you have two choices as I see it. Build on a donor, either Sako or Remington.

Sako are really nice as you know, you will have perfectly good bottom metal and trigger, so you don't need to buy these. Remington has many more options, but you will need to add a Jewell or Timney plus HS or Backburn bottom metal. You can get a Rem donor for about £400, a Sako is more like £700, but you will spend the £300 you saved on the extras for the Rem.

Stock options are limited on Sako's, McMillans really, but these are the best in any case. There are dozens of options for the Rem.

Regarding calibre, there are only two choices in my boook, 260rem or 7/08. If I was doing it again, I might go 7/08.

Here is an option. Go and buy a tidy SH Rem in 7/08. Send it to a decent smith and have it cut to 20" and have a Roedale fitted on a spigot thread, this moves the mod' back another 30mm towards the action and further helps the balance. Put a replacement trigger in it. Now live with it for a while.

At some point in a few months, buy it a stock. I would go for the McMillan Sako Hunter inlet for the Rem - this is the stock Kiri has on his 260. Get a McSwirly cos black stocks are boring. Replace the bottom metal when you can. Shoot the sh1t out of it for a couple of years.

Get it rebarreled at some point when you have £700 to spare.

Essentially this is what I am doing with the 22/250.

Seriously, contact Adam - 1894 on AR, he has done this with Rem's in 243, 7/08 and 308 and that guy really knows his stuff.
 
I would really enjoy owning a Nosler Custom, but only if they agreed to make it in .270Win for me!

You already have one, they are built on a Howa/Weathby action, fitted with a custom barrel, Tinmey trigger, and after market stock.


ATB

Tahr
 
theres plenty of custom makers around i had mine made by rhino rifles and stafford synthetic stocks its does fit like a glove i have 2 a 243 and a 7mm-08 one built on a howa and the other a custom gbr action both pacnor barrels
what i really like aboat custom stuff is theres no compromise you get what you want but be warned if you get one its hard to get a factory standard again
i think 6.5x47 lapua is awsome caliber and will dispatch any uk deer species also 7mm-08 is a good choice with fantastic bullet selection and better down range performance than the 308 View attachment 6839
 
Sounds to me that you are talking about the remington model 7 .

light weight, 20" barrel. comes in .260 or 7.08

Needs an after market trigger, mod and a P S Precision stock and you have your rifle just need Glass now !
 
Here is my “theoretical” perfect rifle.

I want a total weight off 5 1/2lb with a 22” barrel so with scope and bi-pod fitted it comes in at 7 1/2lb.

I want it Based on a Mini-Mauser sized action so overall length in kept down and you have a short stiff action.

I want 3 locking lugs on the bolt for a perfect even case support and short bolt lift.

I want a Shotgun tang safety, ergonomically the perfect place for a safety IMO and less likely to get accidentally knocked off.

I want a detachable magazine so that you can unload en-block when getting in and out of vehicles.

I want a custom “rubberised” stock so your hand doesn’t slip when wet and it must have a comb high enough so you don’t need anything on it with a 56mm scope fitted.





























Oh here it is a standard Browning Titanium A-bolt.:D

P1010170.jpg



ATB

Tahr
 
A Blaser or Krieghoff single shot "Kipplaufbuchse" custom barreled in 303 British, topped with a 3-9x42.
When I win the lottery it'll be mine.:D

You are a gentleman of taste I see and what a calibre to ask the factory for!
:british::D

Unfortunately the spare 5-10 grand also eludes me at the present moment but had I the spare cash a Kipplauf in 7x57 from Blaser, grade 5+wood with plain metalwork leaving me to sort out my own engraving, or a 16X16 interwar Sauer drilling with a 7x57r rifled barrel and a.22RF insert for the left barrel would be just perfect thank you....:lol:


I would really enjoy owning a Nosler Custom, but only if they agreed to make it in .270Win for me!

I've had a look at them, interesting.



theres plenty of custom makers around i had mine made by rhino rifles and stafford synthetic stocks its does fit like a glove i have 2 a 243 and a 7mm-08 one built on a howa and the other a custom gbr action both pacnor barrels
what i really like aboat custom stuff is theres no compromise you get what you want but be warned if you get one its hard to get a factory standard again
i think 6.5x47 lapua is awsome caliber and will dispatch any uk deer species also 7mm-08 is a good choice with fantastic bullet selection and better down range performance than the 308 View attachment 6839

That's a very interesting rifle mate, very nice.

How does the stock feel shooting offhand and off sticks?

I like the idea of the 6.5x47 but don't need it's advantages over say a .260 rem for a hunting rifle.

The calibre question is in many way the most boring but with the nature of our FAC laws one that does need to be decided from the off.

I have looked at the .260 Remington but to be honest it's a little too a la mode for me and needs pushing pressure-wise to get the famed ballistics.

I also need some more input on this calibre and larger deer, I have seen it in action on everything up to fallow.

It is nice, as you say, to not have to compromise.
 
OK, let's be serious, I am on your side.

Assuming we aren't talking a full blown custom action on a Rem clone action, you have two choices as I see it. Build on a donor, either Sako or Remington.

Sako are really nice as you know, you will have perfectly good bottom metal and trigger, so you don't need to buy these. Remington has many more options, but you will need to add a Jewell or Timney plus HS or Backburn bottom metal. You can get a Rem donor for about £400, a Sako is more like £700, but you will spend the £300 you saved on the extras for the Rem.

Stock options are limited on Sako's, McMillans really, but these are the best in any case. There are dozens of options for the Rem.

Regarding calibre, there are only two choices in my boook, 260rem or 7/08. If I was doing it again, I might go 7/08.

Here is an option. Go and buy a tidy SH Rem in 7/08. Send it to a decent smith and have it cut to 20" and have a Roedale fitted on a spigot thread, this moves the mod' back another 30mm towards the action and further helps the balance. Put a replacement trigger in it. Now live with it for a while.

At some point in a few months, buy it a stock. I would go for the McMillan Sako Hunter inlet for the Rem - this is the stock Kiri has on his 260. Get a McSwirly cos black stocks are boring. Replace the bottom metal when you can. Shoot the sh1t out of it for a couple of years.

Get it rebarreled at some point when you have £700 to spare.

Essentially this is what I am doing with the 22/250.

Seriously, contact Adam - 1894 on AR, he has done this with Rem's in 243, 7/08 and 308 and that guy really knows his stuff.

:D

Great minds eh?

I emailed Adam before I posted this thread!

Good advice Brian and what you say makes a lot of sense.

I wonder if at this point it's worth looking at a few other options, like the single shot idea for example, or doing as you say crystallising the accumalated wisdom and bolting together the best bits avaliable into a semi-custom job.

Hmmmm..

Midlife crisis?

Nah ********, it's much worse than that, I've just realised I'm going to be thirty soon and there's nothing I can do about it.....

It's this or buy a Blaser, a Harkilla Kodiak suit, Swaro binoculars and a range rover....:eek:
 
Here is my “theoretical” perfect rifle.

I want a total weight off 5 1/2lb with a 22” barrel so with scope and bi-pod fitted it comes in at 7 1/2lb.

I want it Based on a Mini-Mauser sized action so overall length in kept down and you have a short stiff action.

I want 3 locking lugs on the bolt for a perfect even case support and short bolt lift.

I want a Shotgun tang safety, ergonomically the perfect place for a safety IMO and less likely to get accidentally knocked off.

I want a detachable magazine so that you can unload en-block when getting in and out of vehicles.

I want a custom “rubberised” stock so your hand doesn’t slip when wet and it must have a comb high enough so you don’t need anything on it with a 56mm scope fitted.





























Oh here it is a standard Browning Titanium A-bolt.:D

P1010170.jpg



ATB

Tahr

Interesting, will have to have a look.

Does the shotgun safety lock the bolt or just the trigger?

If it locks both, can you cycle the bolt with the safety on?

Last thing is there anything under the stock line to rust if you're out in the rain?

I mean does it need to be taken out of it's stock to be dried after a real soaking?
 
Grandhubert

I currently shoot with a Sako .308 which was bought because of an impending change in my stalking disciplines, compared to previous years. Prior to that I had a Remington based custom build, action blueprinted, Border Barrels, Jewell trigger, McMillan stock bedding job etc. etc. in .243AI

No matter what anyone tells you, a factory Sako trigger, no matter how much work a good gunsmith does to it, is NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS A JEWELL TRIGGER!!!!!!!

I have owned several other Sako's all of which had trigger work done. I have now shot with a Jewell for over 12 years so whilst not an expert, have an opinion based on experience, albeit it is just my opinion. The current rifle is a 20'' Sako 85 fluted varmint , laminated stock with a single set trigger. It will only ever be a factory made product that is nice at best. It shoots well enough with factory rounds as I have not started loading yet (pick up dies tomorrow). It is NOT AS ACCURATE AS MY CUSTOM BUILD JOBS

Remington actions on their own are a very good starting point, as you point out because they are cheap compared to pukka custom actions like Stolle, BAT etc.

Don't take my word for it, drop 'Dennisgrm' on here a PM, he built mine when he was at Border Barrels. I will admit that some factory triggers my mates have had work done on are very good. But lets keep things in perspective here, a Jewell trigger for a custom rifle is now over £200 for a good reason.
 
I for one is not convinced of the sako route, maybe when rebarreled....
the recoil lug is just screwed on, almost as bad a T3. Three bolt lugs are more difficult to get right than two.
Every action seems to have it's bad points.
Howa and the old sakos are very similar and a great design. Howa stainless has a bit of a galling problem with the stainless
bolt against the stainless action. A blued howa action would make a good base for a custom.
If long action then a Tikka T3 could be quite good, especially if one fits a remington style recoil lug and forgets about
that little aluminium thing.

I used a 20" sporter barreled 243 remington last season which is very light with a roedale mod and 24oz carbon stock,
although the rifle is quite accurate and even printed 1" groups at 300m in the past she seems a bit finicky and I use
her mainly for shorter ranges. Plan would be get her rebarreled, maybe even with a Lothar Walther aluminium sleeved barrel.

My take, the barrel and stock/bedding make the rifle.... action is not quite as important.

edi
 
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