Does it really matter

User00003

Well-Known Member
We all talk about different calibers and which is 'best'; however, from 50-200 yds, with almost any decent expanding bullet, placed in the vitals of the beast, will it really matter if it was shot from:

 .22-250 Remington
 .220 Russian
 .220 Swift
 .221 Remington Fireball
 .222 Remington
 .222 Remington Magnum
 .223 MINISAS
 .223 Remington
 .223 WSSM
 .224 Weatherby Magnum
 .225 Winchester
 .240 Weatherby Magnum
 .243 Winchester
 .243 WSSM
 .244 H&H Magnum
 .244 Remington
 .250-3000 Savage
 .256 Winchester Magnum
 .256 Newton
 .25-06 Remington
 .25-20 Winchester
 .25-35 Winchester
 .25 Remington
 .25 WSSM
 .257 Roberts
 .257 Weatherby Magnum
 .260 Remington
 .264 Winchester Magnum
 .270 Weatherby Magnum
 .270 Winchester
 .270 Winchester Short Magnum
 .270 Sabi
 .276 Enfield
 .276 Pedersen
 .280 British
 .280 Remington
 .280 Ross
 .284 Winchester
 .30 Carbine
 .30 Newton
 .30 RAR
 .30 Remington
 .30 Remington AR
 .30 TC
 .30-06 Springfield
 .30-30 Winchester
 .30-40 Krag (.30 Army)
 .30-378 Weatherby Magnum
 .300 H&H Magnum
 .300 Remington SA Ultra Mag
 .300 Remington Ultra Magnum
 .300 Ruger Compact Magnum
 .300 Savage
 .300 Weatherby Magnum
 .300 Winchester Magnum
 .300 Winchester Short Magnum
 .303 British
 .303 Savage
 .307 Winchester
 .308 Marlin Express
 .308 Norma Magnum
 .308 Winchester
 .32 Remington
 .32 Winchester Self-Loading
 .32 Winchester Special
 .32-20 Winchester (.32 WCF, .32-20 Marlin, .32 Colt Lightning)
 .32-40 Ballard
 .32-40 Winchester
 .325 WSM (Winchester Short Magnum)
 .33 Winchester (.33 WCF)
 .33-40 Pope
 .333 Jeffery
 .333 Jeffery Flanged
 .338 Federal
 .338 Lapua Magnum
 .338 Marlin express
 .338 Remington Ultra Magnum
 .338 Ruger Compact Magnum
 .338 Sabi
 .338 Winchester Magnum
 .338-06 A-Square
 .338-378 Weatherby Magnum
 .340 Weatherby Magnum
 .348 Winchester
 .35 Newton
 .35 Remington
 .35 Whelen
 .35 Whelen Improved
 .35 Winchester
 .35 Winchester Self-Loading
 .350 Remington Magnum
 .351 Winchester Self-Loading
 .356 Winchester
 .358 Norma Magnum
 .358 Winchester
 .375 H&H Magnum
 .375 Remington Ultra Magnum
 .375 Ruger
 .375 Weatherby Magnum
 .375 Whelen (.375-06)
 .375 Winchester
 .376 Steyr
 .378 Weatherby Magnum
 .38-40 Winchester
 .38-55 Winchester

In reality, some of us spend thousands of pounds on custom job calibers and rifles that will never be used in competition, and really, any semi-decent rifle in any of the above calibers would probably do the job equally well...sometimes I reflect and start to worry if we're becoming too obsessed with our gear, and less on the joy of the stalk, practice, and monies that could be invested better elsewhere (stalking ground rents, ground improvements, beer, putting more pheasants down, days at the range, etc. etc.)...

rant over....
 
Um, Yes? I do agree, (speaking as a keyboard warrior with a miniscule amount of experience in comparison to others here) that people do get obsessed and some have lots of money to spend on being silly and getting toys. (Means that I can afford a customised rifle in 3 years time when they sell it. I am of the tightwad variety and am very happy with my factory rifle which will consistently hit 3/4 moa so provided that I remember to lift my leg whilst lying prone..and not standing (See a different post:D) breathe correctly and all the other things that you do, then yes, shot placement should do it. For me I am happy to shoot Roe. If it was a larger species I would want it to be closer

I think that other calibres can do it more effectively allowing a bit more margin of error.

So if you know your capabilities and the capabilities of your rifle then in theory you should be able to bring most things down. However there are many people that do not understand their capabilities or their rifles capabilities and that is where the advice begins.

But which is best...............phaw, I'm not getting involved in that
 
Technology moves on and we have to move with it don't we?:stir:

Any up to date clay pigeon shooter worth his salt knows that clay pigeons simply will not break unless your chokes are brightly coloured and stick out of the end of your 32" plus barrels at least 3/4", your ultra high velocity cartridges kick enough to give a dead man a headache and when not being shot your gun must always be rested on a little leather pad that attaches to your shoe laces!!

Modern riflemen now understand that nothing will die unless shot with a ultra high B.C. plastic tipped bullet travelling at mach 5 fired from a shiny heavy barrel and aimed by a scope that looks like a black trombone. All animals that die when fired upon with lesser, more antiquated kit, merely die from laughing

And we musn't forget that no bird that flies can be brought down with anything less than full choke and at least 36 grams of fours, oh and the cartridge box must mention "high" in its description of intended use.

:lol:
 
well a nissan micra does the same jobs as a audi r8 (which does not go on a track) but given the funds which would most pick.stav
 
its a hobby, we spend disposable income on it, do what makes us happy, if thats chasing cloverleaves (me included in this), then so be it. If you want to use a tatty old rifle and thats what you like, then do so. end of.. its not just about stalking deer for me, its the whole package, excuse to go to some beautiful place, learn about a subject, watch animals, learn field craft, the list goes on. Deer stalking is a collective word which means different things to all of us. For me, its a phrase used to bring all of these interests together at the same place and time.
 
its a hobby, we spend disposable income on it, do what makes us happy, if thats chasing cloverleaves (me included in this), then so be it. If you want to use a tatty old rifle and thats what you like, then do so. end of.. its not just about stalking deer for me, its the whole package, excuse to go to some beautiful place, learn about a subject, watch animals, learn field craft, the list goes on. Deer stalking is a collective word which means different things to all of us. For me, its a phrase used to bring all of these interests together at the same place and time.

Now this is very true and equally true in my opinion is the original post which to me means, that a blending of the two trains of thought is the perfect solution providing we always remember the deer comes first. What I do not like is when people try to thrust their views on everyone else as being the correct and therefore the only option out there, especially when it is done from the comfort of an armchair.

John
 
its a hobby, we spend disposable income on it, do what makes us happy, if thats chasing cloverleaves (me included in this), then so be it. If you want to use a tatty old rifle and thats what you like, then do so. end of.. its not just about stalking deer for me, its the whole package, excuse to go to some beautiful place, learn about a subject, watch animals, learn field craft, the list goes on. Deer stalking is a collective word which means different things to all of us. For me, its a phrase used to bring all of these interests together at the same place and time.

I agree its your hobby and and if you want to spend your money on rifles or what ever thats you business, however in my case stalking is my livelihood, so I need a rifle that will do the job, used not only by me but by clients under the estate rifle clause, so rifle needs to be accurate and reliable, appearance is not important and as long as it shoots decent groups no need for it to clover leaf, my business is like any other a need to balance the books maximum profit from minimum expenditure, that does not mean that you have to be tight just that you have to be able to justify all
expenditure.[ rifles are not tax deductible]
No matter whether it is stalking or anything else there is a vast difference between doing something as a hobby and doing it as a business.
 
What I do not like is when people try to thrust their views on everyone else as being the correct and therefore the only option out there, especially when it is done from the comfort of an armchair.

Its lucky I'm always right then. Otherwise I'd always be arguing with those inconsiderate people ;)

Seriously, though, as long as dead actually is dead and is legally dead then its up to people to choose their own path. I like my guns to have a nice bit of wood and sometimes some nice engraving and I'm willing to pay a bit more for it. But I respect someone who by necessity or choice uses a rifle without the fancy bits. It doesn't make me better than them and it doesn't make me a better stalker to do it my way. It doesn't make them better than me to do it their way. Each to his own.
 
Just shows that you would be better off ignoring the marketing hype and just have one good custom stalking rifle in a solid reliable deer legal calibre... ;) :stir:
 
The question is how dead is dead

The question should be `when and where is it dead`.
For 20 years or so due to perverse legislation we were compelled to use .22 centrefires on deer in Southern Ireland with the .22/250 being at the minimum end of legality regarding energy requirements and with a 55gr bullet.
With correctly placed shots at shortish distances these were barely adequate and at evening time a serious problem if something scampered off.
We investigated this matter and many people got the 5.6X57 RWS calibre rifles which had bullet weights of 74gr., 1910 foot/pounds of muzzle energy and a velocity of 3410 feet per second. [Kegel Spitz or Cone Point Bullet.]
[ These figures are roughly those of a .243 Winchester. ]
I was more fortunate and found a 5.6X61 Vom Hofe Super Express at Stan Armstrongs at Nottingham.
This fired a 77gr bullet at velocity of 3708 feet per second and with muzzle energy of 2350 foot/pounds.
This was the most potent medicine used on the Sika, Hybrids and Reds at that time.

Sika in particular are difficult to kill where they stand as anyone who has shot more than a few knows.

In the words of the late Robert Ruark `use enough gun` or you may find yourself in a difficult situation.
There is no point in creating a possible problem when this can be averted.

HWH.
 
Seriously, though, as long as dead actually is dead and is legally dead then its up to people to choose their own path.

And I can't think of a better reason why FLDs should back off from the restrictive conditions that are put on some FACs. If the holder is experienced and has an open cert, then remove the conditions and leave it up to them to make the decision on what is a suitable or lawful firearm for the quarry.

Would probably save a shed load of public money in reduced administration as well.
 
The cartridge must match the game that is shot.... and maybe a bit of reserves? when things go wrong
and one needs a follow up shot from an awkward angle...or? (or don't you use seat belts in your car?)

One thing is for sure, no accuracy = no decent shotplacement.
If a two inch rifle is ok for a 100yd side on heart/lung shot deer, but then I read so much about neck shooting.
2" won't be good enough for that. I just used 2" because it is not unrealistic for a lot of factory rifles.
Factor in, all shooting positions, differing pressure on forend, different weather, cleanish or very dirty barrel.
Custom rifles have one big advantage, most of the mistakes that are made while building factory rifles
have or should be cured. Leading to reliability. If one takes a real close look at it, to produce reliable accurate
hunting rifles is a much bigger challenge than target rifles.
edi
 
I am with Mr H on the calibre thing. I have legally shot Reds in Ireland with a 22/250, it really is not up to the job. No calibre starting .22...anything can be classed as a general deer rifle. My personal prejudice is that even a 243 is not an adequate general purpose deer rifle, it is excellent on Roe and the smaller deer, rather less than that on Sika and Reds. The minimum in my view is a .25 with 117gr bullets or 6.5 with 120gr bullets.

When it comes to the rifles, most modern barrelled actions are pretty good. Nearly all factory rifles which retail at under lets say £800 - £900 are let down by poor stocks and poor triggers.

You do not need a custom, but I would rather have a decent second hand Sako in a wooden stock than most of the flaxible plastic offerings I see now.
 
Just shows that you would be better off ignoring the marketing hype and just have one good custom stalking rifle in a solid reliable deer legal calibre... ;) :stir:

The question should be `when and where is it dead`.
For 20 years or so due to perverse legislation we were compelled to use .22 centrefires on deer in Southern Ireland with the .22/250 being at the minimum end of legality regarding energy requirements and with a 55gr bullet.
With correctly placed shots at shortish distances these were barely adequate and at evening time a serious problem if something scampered off.
We investigated this matter and many people got the 5.6X57 RWS calibre rifles which had bullet weights of 74gr., 1910 foot/pounds of muzzle energy and a velocity of 3410 feet per second. [Kegel Spitz or Cone Point Bullet.]
[ These figures are roughly those of a .243 Winchester. ]
I was more fortunate and found a 5.6X61 Vom Hofe Super Express at Stan Armstrongs at Nottingham.
This fired a 77gr bullet at velocity of 3708 feet per second and with muzzle energy of 2350 foot/pounds.
This was the most potent medicine used on the Sika, Hybrids and Reds at that time.

Sika in particular are difficult to kill where they stand as anyone who has shot more than a few knows.

In the words of the late Robert Ruark `use enough gun` or you may find yourself in a difficult situation.
There is no point in creating a possible problem when this can be averted.

HWH.

I have to agree with both the above on all points. Apart from the need for a "custom" stalking rifle. High quality and extremely accurate factory rifles are now readily available at prices to suit most pockets. Manufactured ammunition is better than it has ever been. So there really is no need to go down the build it from a list of parts route. Unless you feel the need too for personal reasons.
 
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