Swarovski vs Kahles vs S&B vs Zeiss scope help required!

bewsher500

Well-Known Member
Need some advice from the Swaro/Kahles and Zeiss owners

am looking for a stalking scope (hill and wood, red and roe...some fox)
happy to consider fixed mag in something like 8x56 (would I notice the difference with 8x50?) but would like a variable for mixture of range and stalking.
It is irritating not being able to see a 4" bull at 150yds behind big fat plex reticle! and if I do plan on shooting foxes it would be nice to see them a bit further out.
Ideally needs to be 30mm if possible or I am forking out £40-50 for more rings. not sure if I will notice the difference between 1" and 30mm when it comes to light etc.

looking to spend less than £8-900 if possible.

I have a S&B 4-12 on a 270 so I know they are bullet proof, clear and utterly dependable.
I know nothing about the Zeiss range, the guy at the game fair was less than useless as explaining the ranges to me.
Swaro clearly have a very good name and a very healthy price tag.
I have heard good things about Kahles but again dont have one so cant be sure.


spent the morning perusing the web and various gun shops with 2nd hand and new and came up with these:

Second hand

Kahles 8X50 ILL. RET £569.99 ex demo 1" tube
Kahles 4.5-18x50 £875 1" tube
Kahles 2.5-10x50 plex £795 1" tube
S&B 8x56 £399
Swaro 8x56 £575.00
Swaro AV 6-18X50 BR £850 (never heard of AV range)
Swaro 6-24X50 PLEX £795 (no box)

New
Zeiss 8x56 £642
S&B 8x56 A7 fine £756 (A4F is £562 but I quite like the fine one)
S&B 8x56 Illum £900
Swaro 8x56 £805
Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50 £670 (what is the difference between Classic and Duralyt!?)
Zeiss Classic 3-12x50 £957
Kahles Helia C 3-12x56 £795

No there is a lot to choose from with similar £7-900 price tags.
Some of this is linked to me shifting a scope I have for sale either on part ex or private sale but........where do I put my money!?

The S&B 8x56 looks good value new, but then so does the Swaro 8x56 2nd hand! will I really notice the difference between Swaro and S&B both in 8x56?
I am slightly put off by the 1" tube and the 50mm Objectives on the Kahles but am not sure if that is naive.
The swaro 6-18x50 looks good but the AV bit and the price makes me think it is a very old range.
I dont know if I am ignoring Zeiss because I have never looked through one or they just dont seem to have the same name for quality as S&B and Swaro.

please help!
 
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The Swaro AV's are 1" tube for the US market. I might give them a miss.

Fixed is fine, there is a Swaro PF 8x50 4a in the classifieds here for £500, an excellent buy.

Check out MacLeod's used listings. There is a Swaro 3-12x50 in your price range, plus a Swaro 6-24x50 with a TDS 4 for £895.

You will pay a lot of extra money for illumination. I am not entirely convinced it is required.
 
I'd consider Zeiss Classic Diavari 2.5 - 10 x 50 T*

with ret no. 42 for that slightly longer shot on Charlie...

comes in at £915 at Uttings...will last longer than you will...a Patek Phillipe of the scope market IMHO.
 
I'd consider Zeiss Classic Diavari 2.5 - 10 x 50 T*
with ret no. 42 for that slightly longer shot on Charlie...comes in at £915 at Uttings.

what does the "Diavari" bit denote?
that is £200 more than the 3-12x50 Duralyt
and only £40 less than the Classic 3-12x56 at MacLeods
.....see what I mean!? I am looking at the names, the spec and the prices and thinking which one is meant to be better than the next!? very poor marketing!

The Swaro AV's are 1" tube for the US market. I might give them a miss.
There is a Swaro PF 8x50 4a in the classifieds here for £500, an excellent buy.
Check out MacLeod's , There is a Swaro 3-12x50, plus a Swaro 6-24x50 with a TDS 4 for £895.

Good to know about the AV
I saw the classifieds one and the MacLeod's ones
Will I really notice the difference between 50 and 56mm?!
 
most of the prices I have quoted are straight off the website.

They offered me a (quite low) figure as a trade in on my Leupold so I will probably just sell that privately. I do realise they are not in the Leupold business but a £175 hit on the resale price for a £30 saving on a new scope from them does not make financial sense.

John you once showed me a scope of yours at your house, would this one be it? very fine christmas tree style ret?
 
I have the swaro 6-18 x 50 AV and its fantastic, works with nightsight, great light transmission really robust, I'm very happy with it....new from swillington
 
If you want great value for money, and still a lifelong friend, you could opt for the S&B 8X56 Hungarian - plenty on the 2nd hand market too, so you could score a great deal. In this range I use the 6X42, and have NEVER regretted acquiring this scope, and don't think I'll ever sell it either TBH. Taken roe, reds, fox, all out to 300yds no problem, morning, evening, rain, sleet, snow..still great vision...dropped it, kicked it, shot it...still works (ok, now I'm over exaggerating:lol:)
 
I have a Kahles 3.5-10x50 1" tube & a Swarovski 4-12x50 AV again a 1" tube (both sourced from the USA) & would be pushed to tell the difference optically, at very last light they both give excellent light transmission.

Don't be put off by a 1" tube there is no real difference in my opinion when compared to a 30mm tube & don't think just because the AV range is a year or two old they are not any good, they are great value scopes.

I also use a Swarovski PVI-2 6x24x50 with illuminated TDS-4 reticule on my .22-250 Tikka T3 & this is a brilliant scope. The illumination is an infinitely variable orange dot & the TDS-4 reticule makes hold over very easy.

Chris.[FONT=&quot]
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The Kahles 8x50 is a lovely scope, but it is the front focal plane 4N illuminated reticle, so comparatively thick compared to second focal plane reticles (i.e. the ones that don't change size in variable models). The illumination is really only bright enough for low light but very good (not like modern ones which burn your retina but can be used in daylight for driven shoots). For what its worth, I'm sure you would notice no difference except possible better balance with an 8x50 compared to a 8x56
The Swaro AV range has been re-introduced as the Z3 albeit with different tube and probably internals, but same glass. Good value but no illuminated models.
Hope that helps a little...
 
I've had a Kahles Helia Supra 3-12 x 56 (30mm tube) for 10 years now and it was not new when I bought it. It's been a fantastic scope performing perfectly on various rifles. Solid build superb optics. I'd buy again without doubt.

Ian
 
I have a zeiss diatal 6 x 42 that's not being used, would take 300 for it, great little scope
 
what does the "Diavari" bit denote?
that is £200 more than the 3-12x50 Duralyt
and only £40 less than the Classic 3-12x56 at MacLeods
.....see what I mean!? I am looking at the names, the spec and the prices and thinking which one is meant to be better than the next!? very poor marketing!



Good to know about the AV
I saw the classifieds one and the MacLeod's ones
Will I really notice the difference between 50 and 56mm?!


I know what you mean about the poor marketing....nowhere seems to give definitive differences between models
Unless you get the oppertunity to try and compare them its almost a case of having to "suck it and see"....not good enough when you are spending that much money really
 
I'm with you with the Zeiss range - I think their top of the range scopes have the best glass of any of the commonly available scopes and only Nickel are better, but rare. However, I'm baffled as to which one is their top of the range scope.

I shoot sika in forestry at last light and I'm not convinced by the need for illumination. Having done some experiments I can see the cross hairs after the deer have just become a dark smudge. The only thing illumination is going to let me do is shoot at a well defined point on a dark blob.

Also your situation is complex if you want to do serious range work. I shoot targets with my 8X56 S&B but with the thick cross hairs it is never going to be ideal. On the other hand it is ideal for shooting deer with. It is also the case that you can design a target that works well with the thicker cross hairs and gives you a good aiming point, it only requires a bit of thought. In the end only you can make that call and balance up those priorities.

When it comes to money 2nd hand big name scopes always seem to be good value - you let someone else take the big hit of buying new and then buy good glass at a price that you can probably sell it for again a few years down the line, or it will last you a lifetime. I think Hungarian S&B probably offer the best value for money 2nd hand and with something like the 8X56 you can be shooting with top notch glass for not a lot of cash plus you get the money back if you ever want to sell. I've directly compared a Swaro 8X56 with my S&B and none of those present could tell any difference in performance as the light faded.
 
Apropos to not a lot, I think the 30mm tube is used to allow lots of range adjustment for the super long range blokes. The optics means that the beam of light through the middle is pretty narrow.

Regards, David.
 
only Nickel are better, but rare. However, I'm baffled as to which one is their top of the range scope.


Their point of view seems to be that they are the top of the market ; a plateau of perfection rather than a pinnacle. Hence no marketing, no retailers, no discounted sales.
 
Their point of view seems to be that they are the top of the market ; a plateau of perfection rather than a pinnacle. Hence no marketing, no retailers, no discounted sales.

Sorry, my intention was to point out that because of all the funny names I've no idea which of the Zeiss scopes is their top of range scope, not Nickel. Nickel keep things simple and there is a lot to be said for it.
 
I have a zeiss diatal 6 x 42 that's not being used, would take 300 for it, great little scope

Very inventive Eric, resurrecting a 2 year old thread to get your post count up to 30 so you can place an add for your scope while at the same time advertising the scope you want to move - genius !
 
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