This blog has now been withdrawn
This blog has now been withdrawn
Last edited by bobbyboy; 08-08-2011 at 15:39.
I would have thought that if it was so miss described in writing you would have a reasonable claim for refund, but i bet the lease had a big disclaimer about numbers of deer present etc. However lies about problems with trespassing/bikers is a different matter and i would have thought that it was material to the contract and therefor challengeable. Good luck with it.
The thing that would of rang alarm bells ringing big style before I even went further was 25-35 roe off 550 Acre? Clear fell, commercial forestry? If you viewed the land you should have been able to tell the likely hood of the lease holder being a bull****er on that bias alone.
I don’t doubt you have been mislead from the description of events you supply, as said trading standards could be a opinion. But the cravat, buyer beware comes to mind.
Not wishing to rub salt in your wounds but had you walked this ground on a good few occasions before parting with cash the evidence would have been there to see. Constant trail bike/quad use leaves tracks, you probably would have seen the problem first hand, same goes for dog walkers. We stalkers have created a situation where in our desperation to obtain land before somebody else beats us to it we trust in descriptions we would not trust in when buying other services/products. I don't necessarily believe that acreage dictates deer population/use. I know of some small plots that can produce good deer numbers but again walking the ground looking for signs of deer gives some indication of what could be expected.
IMO this land owner has blatantly lied re the description and use of the ground principally to guild the lily as far as the ground being a stalking prospect and having given it fair chance to improve I would be looking for my cash back.
the size of the ground is not the most important aspect for cull figures it depends on population in and around that area to allow deer to move in once the deer in your area have been culled i know of two areas in northumberland both under 200 acres that produce 50 plus culls every year i think some people use outside influences as excuses for there short comings! as for dog walkers and motorbikers the deer get used to them and i dont think they will be there at the times you will be stalking at this time of year
simple answer if you are not happy would be to negotiate with the owner of the rights to mutually agree your termination, with the amount of people looking for stalking I doubt he would have any problems getting someone else to take it on straight away.
By three methods we may learn wisdom:First, by reflection, which is noblest;Second, by imitation, which is easiest;and third by experience, which is the bitterest
Size does not matter its quality of the feeding Etc,If you have a hub area, where Deer vacuum into because of shelter or feeding, the size is unimportant,
you cant stop them.
Disturbance: With a increase in rural persuits, no place is without disturbance, the deer get used to it. So should the Stalkers Change your Times the deer have.
Stalkers: do the same Routine day in day out, training deer to stay away at times of danger. Change your stratigey
I have heard Stalkers gamekeepers and even Fc stalkers, blaming the past for the short falls of there abilities.ie Lamping, trapping, and all other excuses known to man.
How long have you had the Ground, 6 months. I have had a bit of ground for over 5 years ,i am just getting used to it now, yes its got more dog walkers than you could shake a stick at, you cant stop them, so use them for info ETC.
Take time to get used to the ground, they are all different.
I Stalked in a area for a living of 56K acres, with 7 Munros a SYA Hostel and a train station people everywhere we still shot our cull fig of 250 stags 100 hinds,
granted it was hard, however we new the areas they people would go and where the Deer would go, funnily they werent the same. so should you
Have you done a complete study of the ground before signing your lease ? It looks no is the answer Bikes and people even Deer leave TRACKS
With 50 years experience you would know how to Dung count for heft numbers and Utilisation ,Perhaps.
Our why dont you ask the landlord if he or she can, to shoe you how?
LOCAL KNOWLEDGE INVALUABLE.
This blog has now been removed
Last edited by bobbyboy; 08-08-2011 at 15:41.
I know that the size of a piece of ground is not the whole answer to the amount of deer on it, but really alarm bells would have started ringing when I heard 25 to 35 Roe year after year off of 550 acres, more so when you say its mostly mature pine with good rides and a good clearing, the first thing to do is look at the surrounding area whats the deer population like surrounding your area how much stalking around your area, maybe the deer pass through your area or use your area for shelter, but the true is if you have described your area accurately,its neither big enough for the type of
ground it is to hold that number of deer,the food value in a pine forest is not that good.
What is it Scots Pine, Norway Spruce, Sitka Spruce.
Is it all one species or a variety, you say mature is there an unbroken canopy have they been thinned is there any light getting through so that ground cover can grow.
As for the disturbance clay shooting, bikers, dog walkers none of these are an insurmountable problem, a nuisance maybe but deer especially Roe get used to human activity and learn very quickly what is and whats not a danger to them and tend to ignore anything thats not a danger to them.
If as you think the ground has been overshot in the past Roe numbers can recover quite quickly if the ground is good,
but I suspect in your case due to the size and type of ground whilst it will produce Roe I don't think it will produce them in the numbers you are expecting.
Just for comparison my roe stalking is made up of several areas not all connected ranging from the smallest 1,500 acres
to the largest being 20,000 acres giving me a total of just over 40,000 acres of Roe stalking this is a mixture of woodland both hardwoods and conifers, and arable farmland, this produces an annual cull of 230 to 250 Roe per year
Following on from that and taking your figures as correct my land should be producing in excess of 2,500 Roe per annum
As said already there is more involved than the size of a piece of ground and my observations are based on my interpretation of your post
and with out seeing the ground of course I can't be sure.
But it looks to me very much as if you have been led up the garden path.
This is one of the biggest cases of “sour grapes” I have read in a long time and to be fair could be deemed libelous.
You need to get your facts right before regurgitating utter crap on this forum.
This land has always produced that quantity of deer year on year I believe this is a requirement of the lease but the stalkers involved were and are competent stalkers.
This appears to be where you fall short.
The suggestion of “lamping” taking place on this land is quite seriously a ludicrous suggestion both for legal issues and safety and may i suggest you (unless you have firm evidence and I know you have not) retract that statement.
You cant hit this land hard its impossible to do so the more you shoot the more deer come in from next door end of story.
We all know about the biker issues and thats never going away but the deer are use to them, what i can not understand is how and why you are bumping into them what time are you going stalking?
This thread should be called “warning Bob has secured a deer stalking lease now what should I do?”